Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Fahrenheit 9/11
| Fahrenheit 9/11 [message #103269] |
Thu, 22 July 2004 09:15   |
mahkra
Messages: 219
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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| KIRBY098 |
| mahkra |
....Kerry vs. Bush? ...... just one more reason that I don't vote....
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I fail to see how you feel it's justified that you can complain without exercising this basic democratic right.
If you feel this strongly support a candidate that promotes your ideals. Even if you don't think he can win.
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That's a bullshit argument. I fucking hate it when people say "you don't vote, so you can't complain." I have lots of reasons for not voting, but I'll try to present the most simple:
I don't agree with our political system. I think that the general public is too stupid to be trusted with the responsibility of electing a president. (And the electoral college is even more shit than that.)
I do like the idea of a democracy, but the entire country is too big for John Q. Dumbass to know who is best suited to run it. If anything, I think that people should elect mayors, who in turn elect governors, who in turn elect the president. Or something to that effect.
I don't like our political system. Voting would demonstrate my support of the system. Therefore, I WILL NOT VOTE.
Also, you cannot tell me (without lying to yourself) that my vote actually matters. The uneducated, uninformed public is such a huge majority that all intelligent votes are overwhelmed by the votes of mindless sheep who just vote along party lines or just vote based on what the union leader tells them to do.
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| Fahrenheit 9/11 [message #103272] |
Thu, 22 July 2004 09:17 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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So your solution of course is to do nothing, and watch the whole thing go down the tubes in apathy.
Now that's what I hate.
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| Fahrenheit 9/11 [message #103274] |
Thu, 22 July 2004 09:19 |
mahkra
Messages: 219
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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| KIRBY098 |
| Nodbugger |
I don't know where Michael moore gets off saying the military is full of lower class people.
That is completely untrue. It is true that people who have no hope in ever getting job join the military but it is better than nothing. the Army is full of succesful people. There are hundreds of thousands of every day people who are in the national guard and reserves. Lawyers, doctors, buisiness men, and teachers. Every type of person is in the military. Not just lower class people.
My family is what i would call upper middle class. Both my parents spent well over two decades in the Army. We are not low class bums.
Michael moore is just some fat fuck.
It is terrible that I have to share the name Michael with him.
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I wouldn't worry about his assesment of class structure in the military. He isn't exactly a veteran.
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This isn't just Michael Moore's assessment. It's a simple fact. The *majority* (which does NOT mean "all") of soldiers are from lower class society. Most rich people don't join the army because they get a free ride through college. Lots of poor people do.
I'm not saying that people who are in the army/navy/nat'l guard/air force/coast guard/etc can't be successful. I'm just saying that there are more lower class people in the army than upper class people.
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| Fahrenheit 9/11 [message #103275] |
Thu, 22 July 2004 09:21 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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This is the least on Michael's list of questionable items.
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| Fahrenheit 9/11 [message #103277] |
Thu, 22 July 2004 09:25 |
mahkra
Messages: 219
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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| KIRBY098 |
So your solution of course is to do nothing, and watch the whole thing go down the tubes in apathy.
Now that's what I hate.
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Would you prefer if I organized a revolt and overthrew the government? That's the only realistic way to change the political system.
Fuck off and leave me be. I tolerate the government, even though I don't like the way they run the country. I can't change the system, and I don't really give a damn because for the most part they let me live my life the way I want to. I WILL NOT support the government by voting, though.
And I'm not being apathetic. I'm just choosing my battles wisely. Trying to change the system of government is a fight I cannot win, so I focus my energies on other parts of my life. To do otherwise would be foolish.
Also, from what I've seen/heard of Michael Moore (which, admittedly, is not very much) his facts are 100% true. The way he presents them, though, is very biased and 95% BS. You condemn him for his methods, but you seem to forget that there actually are facts hidden behind his asshole facade.
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| Fahrenheit 9/11 [message #103285] |
Thu, 22 July 2004 12:10 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| mahkra |
Fuck off and leave me be.
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I wasn't aware I was forcing anything on you. If you don't like what I write, then don't reply or read it.
Quite frankly, I don't like your whiny "I'm not going to play this game" mentality, but I'm not taking offense to it, or dropping the F bomb over it.
Lastly, the ideals this country were founded on go against the attitude you are taking in this regard.
The founding fathers response to Great Britain when they felt oppressed and disagreed with the authorities was the same, but the meaning was far different.:
| Goerge Washington |
Fuck off and leave me be.
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The only difference?
They did something about it. I would urge you to use the vote that was hard won by these very same ideals.
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| Fahrenheit 9/11 [message #103298] |
Thu, 22 July 2004 12:55 |
mahkra
Messages: 219
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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| KIRBY098 |
If you don't like what I write, then don't reply or read it.
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This is one of the most illogical statements ever. How can I possibly know I don't like what you're writing until AFTER I read it? In any case, I'm not offended by your opinion. I'm offended by your refusal to even listen to my opinion.
| KIRBY098 |
Quite frankly, I don't like your whiny "I'm not going to play this game" mentality, but I'm not taking offense to it, or dropping the F bomb over it.
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You may not be taking offense to it, but you're not even listening to my side of the argument, which is why I'm getting pissy and swearing at you. If you would actually listen to my side, then I'd be more polite. But you just keep saying "so go vote," not realizing that THAT IS NOT A SOLUTION. I CANNOT change the way a president is selected by voting for a president.
| KIRBY098 |
Lastly, the ideals this country were founded on go against the attitude you are taking in this regard.
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So? I contend that the US government is NOT PERFECT. Maybe the ideals that formed the government way back when were good for that time & place, but I don't think all of them really make sense any more. The world in the 21st century is a very different place than the world in the 18th century, and things that worked back then may not be the best solution any more.
| KIRBY098 |
The founding fathers response to Great Britain when they felt oppressed and disagreed with the authorities was the same, but the meaning was far different.:
| Goerge Washington |
Fuck off and leave me be.
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The only difference?
They did something about it. I would urge you to use the vote that was hard won by these very same ideals.
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First, the Revolutionary War didn't start because the colonists wanted Britain to "fuck off." It started because the colonists wanted representation in the British government, but Britain wouldn't let them have any representatives. Anyway, they started a war. I can't believe you really think I should go start a war against the US government.
In any case, you're free to think and say whatever you want. If you like our current system, then go vote for whomever you think would make the best president. But if you tell me that I should go vote, it means you're not listening to anything I'm saying.
All I ask is that you respect my opinion and stop telling me to vote. I have perfectly valid reasons for not voting, and I'm sick of people belittling them. You may not feel the same way I do, and I respect that. All I ask is that you respect my opinion and stop telling me it's my duty to vote.
You spoke of the ideals the country was founded on. Well, above all else, I think the country was founded on the premise of FREEDOM. Along those lines, voting is a privelege, not an obligation. I'm free to disagree with our government, and (to some extent) I'm free to refuse to participate in it.
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I'll try to say this all more simply, because I'm not sure I'm getting my point across very well:
I do not like the "democratic" system by which the US government is run. Voting would be participation in that system of which I claim to disapprove. If I voted, I would essentially be giving up my right to dislike the system.
To some extent, I think it's stupid of people to say "Bush sucks; Gore would've been better" if they don't vote. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying "the method of electing presidents sucks." There is no alternative offered, so I simply refuse to participate. It's either that or create my own alternative, but that would involve overthrowing the US government, which is not a step I'm prepared to take.
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| Fahrenheit 9/11 [message #103319] |
Thu, 22 July 2004 13:55 |
mahkra
Messages: 219
Registered: April 2004
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| Aircraftkiller |
So if you refuse to participate, and don't want to worry about the government, why in the hell are you writing page long essays about the system of government that you hate so much?
Shut up or something, it'll help your blood pressure.
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Don't presume to think you know anything about me. I'm in perfect health. Actually, I would be willing to bet large sums of money that I'm less stressed than you are, ACK.
Also, are you saying that I'm stupid because I choose to write about something I don't like? Why don't we replace "system of government" with "Renegade mod" and see who the sentence refers to then...| Quote: |
why in the hell are you writing page long essays about the Renegade mod that you hate so much?
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*cough* Reborn *cough*
People have positive opinions about things and negative opinions about things. I would think that you of all people would understand that sometimes there's a reason to express the negative ones.
EDIT: Also, I said that I refuse to participate in an election. I didn't say I refuse to participate in a discussion.
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| Fahrenheit 9/11 [message #103354] |
Thu, 22 July 2004 16:54 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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I do see your point actually.
Fair enough. We agree to disagree.
And the comment on not reading the posts refers to the ignore feature on these forums. I'm not that much of a simpleton.
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| Fahrenheit 9/11 [message #103355] |
Thu, 22 July 2004 16:55 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| mahkra |
Also, are you saying that I'm stupid because I choose to write about something I don't like? Why don't we replace "system of government" with "Renegade mod" and see who the sentence refers to then...| Quote: |
why in the hell are you writing page long essays about the Renegade mod that you hate so much?
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*cough* Reborn *cough*
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Classic stuff right there. 
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| Fahrenheit 9/11 [message #103390] |
Thu, 22 July 2004 19:44 |
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ViperFUD
Messages: 69
Registered: April 2003
Karma: 0
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| mahkra |
It's either that or create my own alternative, but that would involve overthrowing the US government, which is not a step I'm prepared to take.
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I know treason is illegal, but if I want to overthrow the American Government, for the good of it's people, is that treason, or just free speech?
And shepherds we shall be,
For thee, my Lord, for thee.
Power hath descended forth from thy hand;
That our feet may swiftly carry out thy command.
And we shall flow a river forth to thee,
And teeming with souls shall it ever be.
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| Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 [message #266195 is a reply to message #100711] |
Thu, 14 June 2007 10:42 |
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AoBfrost
Messages: 1248
Registered: March 2007
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| liberator wrote on Sat, 10 July 2004 02:01 |
You shouldn't have given your age out, you have effectively gutted most of you're arguments as we now know that you are too young to have any first hand experience with what you speak of. That aside however, F911 is not a documentary, it is a America Hater propaganda piece that I am basically ignoring.
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Your a good american, still good to see people who support their country and hate...haters.....Michael moore is all crap, his movie was just all a 911 conspiracy mumbo jumbo put into a movie...really if you were there, you'd physically see a FREAKIN AIRPLANE hit the twin towers. Yeah...i'm sure a cruiser missle really hit the trade center and pentagon...it all makes sense really, it solves where the 2000 some people went "mysteriously" missing, guys get real, anti american terrorist blew the crud out of the twin towers with a airline, it's on camera.....
| Scrin wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 12:19 |
''whoa im the photoshop''
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KANE LIVES!!!
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