Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time.
| Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time. [message #62884] |
Tue, 20 January 2004 23:36   |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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My... goodness..
Here's a hint. In order to win an arguement, stop taking what people say and ignoring it.
I ALREADY SAID that you can't register domain names, but rather the name renmaps when used as a sale item. Someone can't sell dodge vipers on the internet, simply because they happen to own the domain name.
Another bit of advice. Take a CONTRACT LAW course, maybe then your arguements will hold water with me. A sale is a contract between two parties, where one is providing a service (including the sale of goods) and the other is compensating the other persons loss by giving something back that is of equivalent value. "Equivalent value" is what makes a contract legal. You can't sell a house that is worth 3 million for $1 unless both parties are fully aware of the term of the contract and agree on it with full consent and that they are of sane mind and body etc. when they do so. If it is agreed that the traffic produced for a site is good enough for the site to offer its service, then the sale is complete, as maps ARE a commodity.
Here, I'll make it simple for you.
re·ward ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-wôrd)
n.
3. satisfying return or result; profit.
And just in case you try to argue that the maps (and modifications) that the server has are NOT commodities:
com·mod·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-md-t)
n. pl. com·mod·i·ties
1 .Something useful that can be turned to commercial or other advantage: “Left-handed, power-hitting third basemen are a rare commodity in the big leagues” (Steve Guiremand).
2 .An article of trade or commerce
So once again, because I have a feeling you STILL won't get it...
Renmaps CAN be used in other domain names, it CAN NOT (IF trademarked) be used as a sale name. Ex: "Thanks to Renmaps for hosting this!" or "Renmaps made this (if applicable) could only be used if it referred to the trademarked name. Just like if the RenAlert or Reborn teams decided to trademark their names, no other mod could use the name (as it is used as the name of the item being sold). But they could still host a domain with that name.
AT THIS CURRENT POINT IN TIME: to my knowledge, neither site has trademarked the renmaps name, so at this current point in time, ANYONE can use it for whatever reason they seem fit.
And yes, you do use hard facts, unfortunatly you only use part of the facts when you present them, as I have shown many times.
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| Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time. [message #62964] |
Wed, 21 January 2004 13:17 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7428
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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From: Alkaline
To: Crimson
Posted: 21 Jan 2004 12:06 pm
Subject: dodgeviper.com No they couldn't.
crimson, unlock that post, I have to fix warrant.
ALso http://www.lsulaw.com LSU tried to sue their own student for not handing over the domain, the student won. Dodgeviper.com owner was afraid of lawsuit so he shutdown his site.
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Lies, lies, lies... he fought and lost, he didn't willingly give it up.
http://udrp.law.cornell.edu/udrp/index.php
If you search here, you'll see that the owner of dodgeviper.com was in fact forced to surrender the domain to Daimler Chrysler Corporation by the courts under the Universal Domain Dispute Resolution Policy.
Here's a link to the actual ruling.
http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2000/d2000-0222.html
You are WAY off base here.
I'm the bawss.
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| Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time. [message #62969] |
Wed, 21 January 2004 13:38 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Ah.. someone to back up what I've been saying all along.
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True, copyrights do not protect it, but that doesn't mean just anyone can use it. there are places such as the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) that resolve disputes of this nature.
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And as we can see by the decision, the fact that the NAME was used wasn't important.
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The Panel decides that (1) the Domain Name registered by Respondent is identical to the name of Complainant’s product, [edit: dodgeviper.com, not dodgeviperfansite.com] DODGE VIPER, and confusingly similar to Complainant’s marks DODGE and VIPER [edit: once again because it was dodgeviper.com and not dodgeviperfansite.com], (2) that Respondent has no rights or legitimate interests in respect of the Domain Name, and (3) that the Domain Name has been registered and used in bad faith
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| Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time. [message #62971] |
Wed, 21 January 2004 13:46 |
Alkaline
Messages: 1132
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
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no, dodgeviper.com lost the case because he tried to sell the domain on ebay! In that case, trademark law applies because he is trying to make money off dodge company. However, before he tried to sell the domain, dodge could not have done anything. Same thing happened to apple.com, an apple farmer in CA had registered the domain http://www.apple.com, since the farmer had a legitmate buisness and was selling apples, apple inc. could not take his domain... However, if that farmer was using it in some way to extort apple inc, or in some way make money from apple inc then they could get the domain. In the end, apple inc bought the domain from him.
http://www.lsulaw.com, LSU LOST, they did not get the domain. I know this I go to LSU, you can even check my IP. See here, I'm not way off you are.
Unless it deals with commerce, trademark law does not apply, LSU thought they could get the domain simply because it included the word LSU, no thats not the case.
I said it once, I'll say it again. "Renmaps" can be used be anyone freely without worry. There is no legal power you can have over the name. Unless it is federally registered.
http://www.UNRules.com
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| Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time. [message #62974] |
Wed, 21 January 2004 13:54 |
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| Alkaline |
no, dodgeviper.com lost the case because he tried to sell the domain on ebay! In that case, trademark law applies because he is trying to make money off dodge company. However, before he tried to sell the domain, dodge could not have done anything. Same thing happened to apple.com, an apple farmer in CA had registered the domain http://www.apple.com, since the farmer had a legitmate buisness and was selling apples, apple inc. could not take his domain... However, if that farmer was using it in some way to extort apple inc, or in some way make money from apple inc then they could get the domain. In the end, apple inc bought the domain from him.
http://www.lsulaw.com, LSU LOST, they did not get the domain. I know this I go to LSU, you can even check my IP. See here, I'm not way off you are.
Unless it deals with commerce, trademark law does not apply, LSU thought they could get the domain simply because it included the word LSU, no thats not the case.
I said it once, I'll say it again. "Renmaps" can be used be anyone freely without worry. There is no legal power you can have over the name. Unless it is federally registered.
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Adults are always right, shut up and give up, you're not going anywhere anyway...You're arguing for a lost cause.
I suck cock and love it... absolutely love it. And I just got banned for being too immature to be allowed to post here.
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| Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time. [message #62975] |
Wed, 21 January 2004 13:54 |
Alkaline
Messages: 1132
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
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Incase you need more proof:
http://www.lsulaw.com/about.htm
read what ican has to say as well, in dodgeviper.com's case the owner used the domain in BAD FAITH, he tried to sell it and make money off it, hence 2 commerce comes into play, and trademark law has a stake in the case.
As long as you use a domain in good faith, there is nothing you can do about. I'm using http://www.renmaps.net in good faith, and msgtpain can't do jack shit about it.
However, I on ther other hand could nail him for libel for saying he was hosting maps for me.
http://www.UNRules.com
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| Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time. [message #62993] |
Wed, 21 January 2004 15:58 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Alkaline |
Incase you need more proof:
http://www.lsulaw.com/about.htm
read what ican has to say as well, in dodgeviper.com's case the owner used the domain in BAD FAITH, he tried to sell it and make money off it, hence 2 commerce comes into play, and trademark law has a stake in the case.
As long as you use a domain in good faith, there is nothing you can do about. I'm using http://www.renmaps.net in good faith, and msgtpain can't do jack shit about it.
However, I on ther other hand could nail him for libel for saying he was hosting maps for me.
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Libel? You have got to be kidding me. Guess what? ONLINE reputations mean NOTHING. Unless him saying that you hosted "his" maps damages your reputation to any great degree IN REAL LIFE, then yes he could be libel. But somehow I highly doubt that would happen. "Oh no! I lost my friends and my job because someone said I hosted their maps"
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no, dodgeviper.com lost the case because he tried to sell the domain on ebay! In that case, trademark law applies because he is trying to make money off dodge company. However, before he tried to sell the domain, dodge could not have done anything.
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Once again, you only report PART of the whole thing. It's too much to quote everything that was done (I will if I have to) but it wasn't that fact that he tried to sell it, it's that he tried to sell it for MORE than what he had spent on it. In otherw words, make a profit. However, if you read the things the complain listed, AS WELL as the rulings, you'll find that it was more than just selling the domain name for profit. As the ruling stated:
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The Panel decides that (1) the Domain Name registered by Respondent is identical to the name of Complainant’s product, DODGE VIPER, and confusingly similar to Complainant’s marks DODGE and VIPER, (2) that Respondent has no rights or legitimate interests in respect of the Domain Name, and (3) that the Domain Name has been registered and used in bad faith.
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Edit: I just looked at the LSUlaw link. Interesting how you say that the lawsuit has been decided, considering the site states that it is still ongoing. Sure it could just be that the owner hasn't updated the site, but it still isn't proof that what you say is true.
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| Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time. [message #63020] |
Wed, 21 January 2004 17:53 |
Alkaline
Messages: 1132
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
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mgstpain has no control over "renmaps" even the word. Also I can use it advertisements if I want, he can't do anything about it. I can actively sell merchandise using that name. Once I do this, I will actually own rights to "renmaps", because I was the first one to use it in commerce. I keep telling you trademarks only apply in commerce, not in everyday speech, and usually the one who starts using it first in commerce gets the rights. what you think every time I use the word microsoft I have to pay them? No. Didn't you read that entire article? I'm sorry but your download reward the public bullshit does not count :rolleyes: its not commerce.
Yes, I can hold him for Libel, This website is in print and can be used to pin him, I have seen cases like this, where the defendant lost.
As for the LSU case, LSU dropped it. they are now arguing over http://www.lsusucks.com, this used to point to http://www.lsulaw.com but dougyboy (nick name) decided to remove that.
Warrnto I passed the Bar In Louisina 1 year go, I know more abut this anyone on this forum, Heck one my good friends was even being sued by the sam University he goes to, and it was after something very similiar to this. I'm currently getting my MBA, and will get my JD soon.
You are confused and mislead, I see this all the time, people have big misconceptions and the only reason you are posting here is because you feel that you have to defend mgstpain in some way because he can't do it himself. That goes for all the people that are posting retarded comments.
As for the dodgeviper.com I already told he tried to MAKE MONEY OFF of dodge, which is why he lost the case!
http://www.UNRules.com
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| Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time. [message #63037] |
Wed, 21 January 2004 18:42 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Sigh*
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mgstpain has no control over "renmaps" even the word. Also I can use it advertisements if I want, he can't do anything about it. I can actively sell merchandise using that name. Once I do this, I will actually own rights to "renmaps", because I was the first one to use it in commerce. I keep telling you trademarks only apply in commerce, not in everyday speech, and usually the one who starts using it first in commerce gets the rights. what you think every time I use the word microsoft I have to pay them? No. Didn't you read that entire article? I'm sorry but your download reward the public bullshit does not count its not commerce.
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com·merce ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kmrs)
n.
The buying and selling of goods
buy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (b)
v. bought, (bôt) buy·ing, buys
v. tr.
To acquire in exchange for money or its equivalent; purchase
sell ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sl)
v. sold, (sld) sell·ing, sells
v. tr.
To exchange or deliver for money or its equivalent
com·mod·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-md-t)
n. pl. com·mod·i·ties
Something useful that can be turned to commercial or other advantage
An article of trade or commerce,
pur·chase ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pûrchs)
tr.v. pur·chased, pur·chas·ing, pur·chas·es
To obtain in exchange for money or its equivalent
Now that the definitions are set forth, you can plainly see that selling, buying, commerce in general, DOES NOT HAVE TO INVOLVE MONEY. All it has to do is provide a service for people where he gets an equivalent "something" in return. If he wanted to he could charge for access to his site, as he is only recouping lost income on bandwidth (assuming the income doesn't exceed his out of pocket expenditures), however he has decided not to do that.
But regardless, as I have said before (now FOUR times :rolleyes: ) YOU CAN USE THE RENMAPS.NET DOMAIN. however, IF (maybe when I stress it enough, you'll notice it) he decides to trademark the name renmaps, YOU CAN STILL USE THE DOMAIN. HOWEVER IF he decied to do that, since he is providing a service to people, you won't be able to use the name IN REGARDS TO SELF PROMOTION. That would be the same as holding a pary, making hamburgers, selling (refer to the defintion of selling I provided) them, and calling them McDonalds burgers. Yes I will admit the use of the word sale is somewhat not completely accurate as with what todays standards imply, but it is still simply and exchange of goods for equivalent value. For such an educated person, you sure don't read very well.
As for libel, lets say for the moment your right. You can go ahead and sue him for libel, I'll be right behind you with my suit against you.
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well since you are stupid n00b warranto, (...) happy now? stupid n00b.
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Sounds stupid doesn't it? Thats what I thought. Show me a birth cirtificate that shows "Alkaline"" is a real person, or ANY proof that this will adversly affect the personal life of "Alkaline". Infact, show me ANY proof that your real identity is accessable via this site, and that "msgtpain" has access to it. Heck, for all I know, YOUR msgtpain using an spoofed IP to cause this arguement.
As for the LSU case, I thought you said they lost? Now you said they dropped it? Your the "educated" one here, please tell me how stopping something from being concluded is the same as loosing? In the legal sence I mean...
As for your accomplishments with the bar exam, good for you (assuming that your not just saying this to try an make you look more creditable) But there have been people in the past that have passed the bar exam, and proove their knowledge by, oh I don't know, suing a kids hockey league for discrimination when his kid didn't get into the level that he should have gotten.
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| Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time. [message #63045] |
Wed, 21 January 2004 18:57 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7428
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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Nor can you claim any right to renmaps.net because trademarks do not cover owning domian names, e.g. why somone can own http://www.dodgeviper.com and dodge the company can't do anything about it.
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As for the dodgeviper.com I already told he tried to MAKE MONEY OFF of dodge, which is why he lost the case!
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msgtpain's not making money off his domain, and you're not making money off yours. While it's not illegal and msgtpain has no grounds to recover the domain from you, it's still lame to copy from others' ideas.
I'm the bawss.
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| Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time. [message #63096] |
Wed, 21 January 2004 21:45 |
Alkaline
Messages: 1132
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
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warranto,
1. You don't know what libel's meaning is, profanity/derogatory comments are not considered libel. However, alteration of facts does. Being this dumbass you are your probably going to tell me that call you a n00b alter the fact that you aren't. Obviously your dumbass for even thinking that.
2. As for the SERVICE, the could, should, IS NOT THE SAME, don't quote dictionary definations dumbass, legal definitions are NOT the same as oXford's dictionary. As far as legality goes, THEIR is no commerce involved, hence no right to claim anything. Only thing you established is bullshit, nothing with legal leverage.
3, I registerd renmaps.cjb.net 11 months ago, this was back when even before renbattle was on gamespy. I use to run a Tibevo 12 server way back in the day, and when ack released country meadows I created a quick site so that people could dl the map. There was no http://www.renmaps.com then... Then the bullshit with renbattle started and I said fuck it, drop this new map nonsense.
Then once I got a stable server, I said I'll use that renmaps.cjb.net to derect people where to dl the maps. People that join the server said we aren't going to download single maps, so I added a map pack. Seeing as how cjb.net is advertising whoore, I got the domain renmaps.net to remove those shitty ads. I had the intention of using renmaps from day 1.
Renmaps its self is not some creative name, anyone thinking of creating a site where people can download maps for renegade would have thought of it, its short and to the point, so mgstpain, you aren't no fucking creative mastermid. If I wanted to copy someone, it would not have been renmaps.com , it would have been renwars, or renbattle, because they are the ones that actually have people playing new maps on there servers.
I could have had access to http://www.renegademaps.com, how creative is that?
you put the name of the game, and maps to it , and volla your a genious.
http://www.UNRules.com
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| Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time. [message #63108] |
Thu, 22 January 2004 00:53 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Ah, so you want legal definitions then? Well here you go!
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libel
1) n. to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others. Libel is the written or broadcast form of defamation, distinguished from slander, which is oral defamation. It is a tort (civil wrong) making the person or entity (like a newspaper, magazine or political organization) open to a lawsuit for damages by the person who can prove the statement about him/her was a lie. Publication need only be to one person, but it must be a statement which claims to be fact and is not clearly identified as an opinion. While it is sometimes said that the person making the libelous statement must have been intentional and malicious, actually it need only be obvious that the statement would do harm and is untrue. Proof of malice, however, does allow a party defamed to sue for general damages for damage to reputation, while an inadvertent libel limits the damages to actual harm (such as loss of business) called special damages. Libel per se involves statements so vicious that malice is assumed and does not require a proof of intent to get an award of general damages. Libel against the reputation of a person who has died will allow surviving members of the family to bring an action for damages. Most states provide for a party defamed by a periodical to demand a published retraction. If the correction is made, then there is no right to file a lawsuit. Governmental bodies are supposedly immune to actions for libel on the basis that there could be no intent by a non-personal entity, and further, public records are exempt from claims of libel. However, there is at least one known case in which there was a financial settlement as well as a published correction when a state government newsletter incorrectly stated that a dentist had been disciplined for illegal conduct. The rules covering libel against a "public figure" (particularly a political or governmental person) are special, based on U.S. Supreme Court decisions. The key is that to uphold the right to express opinions or fair comment on public figures, the libel must be malicious to constitute grounds for a lawsuit for damages. Minor errors in reporting are not libel, such as saying Mrs. Jones was 55 when she was only 48, or getting an address or title incorrect. 2) v. to broadcast or publish a written defamatory statement.
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Now lets see here... in order for it to be libel, one factor must be that it was a lie. So what was it msgtpain said? Ah yes!
In one of his posts he stated:
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The point is, he registered the .net version of my .com site, then pointed the majority of his links to MY site for the downloads.
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And in the other one:
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Thanks for removing the links and hosting them yourself...
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Now.. does this seem like a lie? Lets see what you said!
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Yes I am hosting all the maps you blind idiot. All the map packs are hosted on my site not your dofus. The idividual map links are to yoru site and cncden, I'll remove them to shut you up.
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Hmm, not much of a lie if you ADMIT you had (as msgtpain stated) pointed the majority of the link (Quote: The idividual map links are to yoru site and cncden,) to his site! Well done! Accusing someone of libel based on a truthful fact!
As for the commerce:
I could find no specific commerce definition that stated what we are discussing, but I'll place the one I found, and the subsequent definition it lead me to.
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interstate commerce
n. commercial trade, business, movement of goods or money, or transportation from one state to another, regulated by the federal government according to powers spelled out in Article I of the Constitution. The federal government can also regulate commerce within a state when it may impact interstate movement of goods and services and may strike down state actions which are barriers to such movement under Chief Justice John Marshall's decision in Gibbons v. Ogden (1824). Theoretically commerce is regulated by the Interstate Commerce Commission (I.C.C.) under authority granted by the Interstate Commerce Act, first enacted by Congress in 1887. This authority has been diffused among various federal agencies, and the I.C.C. may soon be history.
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trade
1) n. a business or occupation for profit, particularly in retail or wholesale sales or requiring special mechanical skill. 2) v. to exchange one thing for another, which includes money for goods, goods for goods and favors for goods or money.
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So... if commerce is a type of trade, and trade covers what we've been discussing, I must concude that Renmaps.com (which provides favors for goods [provides a service - NOT the legal definition]) must be a type of trade! And just for good measure, the legal definition of sale:
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sale
n. transfer of something (and title to it) in return for money (or other thing of value) on terms agreed upon between buyer and seller. The price paid may be based on a posted cost, established by negotiation between seller and buyer, or by auction with potential buyers bidding until the highest bid is accepted by the seller or his agent (auctioneer).
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And you STILL don't get it... I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES NOW THAT YOU CAN USE THE RENMAPS DOMAIN NAME! This is the FIFTH (thats 5th) time I've mentioned this. And your the one talking about reading posts :rolleyes:
Oh wait.. you mentioned reading posts! What was it you said?
This sounds surprizingly different than what you said before...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time I checked, a lawsuit, if dropped could be reopened at a later date if needed as no ruling has been made. However, a lost lawsuit could NOT be reopened again. Appeals yes, but the person can't be charged with the same "crime" at a later date as a riuling HAS been made.
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| Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time. [message #63113] |
Thu, 22 January 2004 01:30 |
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England
Messages: 618
Registered: February 2003
Location: High Wycombe, England
Karma: 0
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| Alkaline |
3, I registerd renmaps.cjb.net 11 months ago, this was back when even before renbattle was on gamespy. I use to run a Tibevo 12 server way back in the day, and when ack released country meadows I created a quick site so that people could dl the map. There was no http://www.renmaps.com then... Then the bullshit with renbattle started and I said fuck it, drop this new map nonsense.
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Domain Name: RENMAPS.COM
Created on..............: Wed, Feb 12, 2003
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Renmaps its self is not some creative name, anyone thinking of creating a site where people can download maps for renegade would have thought of it, its short and to the point, so mgstpain, you aren't no fucking creative mastermid. If I wanted to copy someone, it would not have been renmaps.com , it would have been renwars, or renbattle, because they are the ones that actually have people playing new maps on there servers.
I could have had access to http://www.renegademaps.com, how creative is that?
you put the name of the game, and maps to it , and volla your a genious.
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I dont know anyone else who has the bandwidth, experiance or basically can be bothered to host everything that the community throws out, without queing, gamespy.
If you wanna be different, come buy http://www.cncdownloads.com <-- Creative 
In the end it doesn't matter if you are who you say you are. You will still mean nothing to me.
When i have kids, everytime i drive past a fast food restaurant, im gonna punch my kid in the face, then they'll never wanna come..
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| Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time. [message #63144] |
Thu, 22 January 2004 10:13 |
Alkaline
Messages: 1132
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
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warranto,
Why the hell do you keep saying renmaps.net domain? I know that you dipshit, you keep pointing it out as if I disagree with you.
Once again,
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So... if commerce is a type of trade, and trade covers what we've been discussing, I must concude that Renmaps.com (which provides favors for goods [provides a service - NOT the legal definition]) must be a type of trade! And just for good measure, the legal definition of sale:
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WRONG! Trade in its legal sense involves exchange of legal Tender, this is not considered legal tender by the visitors part, because:
1. All trade must have a deed & contract & consent of the buyer/seller. Now you may be wondering wtf "a contract?" Yes, every time you buy something from the store, In legal sense you entered into a contract, you paid someone and in return got something with the presense of both parties, or at least representatives of both parties.
Free services, donations, charities e.t.c do not fall into trade. THAT IS THE LAW, there is a clear and understood distinction made in the U.S. code. You can't make your own bullshit theories to change that I keep fucking telling you this, but you being the fucktard that you are you keep trying to bend shit around to make it sound like you can do this... uhg...
Your conclusion is a testament to dellusion
http://www.UNRules.com
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| Renmaps.cjb.net Server is now full time. [message #63253] |
Thu, 22 January 2004 21:02 |
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England
Messages: 618
Registered: February 2003
Location: High Wycombe, England
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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OMFG YOUR RIPPING OFF THE UN!!!!!!!11
Gonna get them to ring you.
:rolleyes:
In the end it doesn't matter if you are who you say you are. You will still mean nothing to me.
When i have kids, everytime i drive past a fast food restaurant, im gonna punch my kid in the face, then they'll never wanna come..
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