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| Re: Jesus [message #215433 is a reply to message #215250] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 22:22   |
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Crimson
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I'm not a "pseudo" intellectual, thank you very much.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215437 is a reply to message #215411] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 22:49 |
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xptek
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| Crimson wrote on Sat, 26 August 2006 22:47 |
For religion to claim that a "god" or "intelligent being" created the universe is just closed-minded.
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Implying everyone following a religion is "close-minded" doesn't really help your argument.
| Crimson wrote on Sat, 26 August 2006 22:47 |
And even IF there was a "god" who put the big bang into motion, it does NOT mean we need to worship it/her/him and it DOES mean that anything in the Bible is more than a big bunch of brainwashing hooey.
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Can you back that up at all?
I'm an atheist. Fire away.
cause = time
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| Re: Jesus [message #215443 is a reply to message #215250] |
Sat, 26 August 2006 23:56 |
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glyde51
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Oh no! I need to give myself up to a higher power! I can't save myself!
Lol, I found a pamphlet about it lying around on the ground in the U.S. while I was on vacation. I laughed. kk?
No. Seriously. No.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215445 is a reply to message #215250] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 00:58 |
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Crimson
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I said "DOES" when I meant "DOESN'T". Corrected.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215462 is a reply to message #215421] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 03:01 |
puddle_splasher
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| icedog90 wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 00:26 |
| warranto wrote on Sat, 26 August 2006 16:01 |
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Have you ever known scientifically, of anyone, animal or any living thing to be resurrected and not after being "dead" for a few seconds or minutes?
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I do. His name was Jesus. I know this because a book, filled with words that I am not able to witness for myself, tells me so.
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People to this day are still being raised from the dead. it IS a fact. There are stories all over the internet, and heck, even videos if you search hard enough.
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I already stated that we do not want to know of people that have been "dead" for seconds or minutes, because that argument goes along the lines that say:- because the heart stops doesnt mean you are dead. When all body functions stop, thats really when you are dead.
the heart pumps blood that carries the oxygen that goes to the brain.......blah blah blah, its all medical.
However ther is NO-ONE that has ever brought anyone BACK FROM BEING DEAD. It does take a genius to understand and accept this, even the village idiot comprehends that his pet mouse is dead. otherwise every grave will be getting dug up and everyone coming back to us.
The person that has crowned and understands better than most is BLAZER.
We can discuss all day and no-one will change their minds. Its a totally useless discussion.
Stick with your faith until you see your younger brother dead at 27, followed on a few years later by his Son, my nephew 15. Then tell me there is a God working for a better need and we will still argue otherwise.
Ask me if I believe in God and you will get another different concept.
We shall see when my time comes if I was right.
[Updated on: Sun, 27 August 2006 05:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Jesus [message #215482 is a reply to message #215462] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 04:35 |
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Scythar
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| puddle_splasher wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 06:01 |
| icedog90 wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 00:26 |
| warranto wrote on Sat, 26 August 2006 16:01 |
| Quote: |
Have you ever known scientifically, of anyone, animal or any living thing to be resurrected and not after being "dead" for a few seconds or minutes?
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I do. His name was Jesus. I know this because a book, filled with words that I am not able to witness for myself, tells me so.
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People to this day are still being raised from the dead. it IS a fact. There are stories all over the internet, and heck, even videos if you search hard enough.
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I alreadyu stated that we do not want to know of people that have been "dead" for seconds or minutes, because that argument goes along the lines that say:- because the heart stops doesnt mean you are dead. When all body functions stop, thats really when you are dead.
the heart pumps blood that carries the oxygen that goes to the brain.......blah blah blah, its all medical.
However ther is NO-ONE that has ever brought anyone BACK FROM BEING DEAD. It does take a genius to understand and accept this, even the village idiot comprehends that his pet mouse is dead. otherwise every grave will be getting dug up and everyone coming back to us.
The person that has crowned and understands better than most is BLAZER.
We can discuss all day and no-one will change their minds. Its a totally useless discussion.
Stick with your faith until you see your younger brother dead at 27, followed on a few years later by his Son, my nephew 15. Then tell me there is a God working for a better need and we will still argue otherwise.
Ask me if I believe in God and you will get another different concept.
We shall see when my time comes if I was right.
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Cryonics poses an interesting twist to that way of thinking though. I'm not an expert on the matter, but doesn't the body lose all activity when deep-frozen? Sure, we can't revert the process yet, but it shouldn't be impossible.
There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215513 is a reply to message #215462] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 07:17 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
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| puddle_splasher wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 04:01 |
Stick with your faith until you see your younger brother dead at 27, followed on a few years later by his Son, my nephew 15. Then tell me there is a God working for a better need and we will still argue otherwise.
Ask me if I believe in God and you will get another different concept.
We shall see when my time comes if I was right.
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LOL. Yes, I'm laughing at you. One of those people who thinks God doesn't exist because something bad happened to him. Pathetic. You're going to claim that something doesn't exist, simply based on the fact that "he let something [that you didn't like] happen"?
Oh my goodness, how much more pathetic can you get? Why should an unfortunate thing such as death prove one way or the other as to God's existance. All that proves is that he won't be there at your beck and call. I mean, grow up.
Oh but wait, "why would God let things happen if he really exists?", right? That'sa religious concept. Something HUMANS thought up. That doesn't mean that it is true. It may be, and perhaps there is a reason something that bad happened, but it doesn't mean it's a fact. Perhaps God simply doesn't care... but that doesn't mean that there is no God, just one that doesn't care.
| Quote: |
However ther is NO-ONE that has ever brought anyone BACK FROM BEING DEAD. It does take a genius to understand and accept this, even the village idiot comprehends that his pet mouse is dead. otherwise every grave will be getting dug up and everyone coming back to us.
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I already gave you one example.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215531 is a reply to message #215443] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 08:17 |
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| glyde51 wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 02:56 |
Oh no! I need to give myself up to a higher power! I can't save myself!
Lol, I found a pamphlet about it lying around on the ground in the U.S. while I was on vacation. I laughed. kk?
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Why is it that we're mocked because we believe in something we can't see? Do you not have faith that you will have a house tomorrow? You don't know if that'll be true until the day ends. It's a physical impossibility unless you have some sinister plan to burn down the house or have it destroyed by some other means.
Why is that so much easier to believe in than a higher being? Simply because you've had a roof over your head for your entire life? That doesn't mean anything when tomorrow comes and your house suddenly goes up in flames. Yet, you still believe that you're going to be in your bed tomorrow night in the comfort of your own home.
The fact is, you believe in something that you can't see. I believe in something that I can't see. The only difference is what I can't see is a little bit more life-changing. Disagree with my beliefs? Fine, but don't dare mock me because I believe in something.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Jesus [message #215533 is a reply to message #215531] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 08:26 |
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Javaxcx
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Location: Canada, eh?
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| j_ball430 wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 11:17 |
Why is it that we're mocked because we believe in something we can't see? Do you not have faith that you will have a house tomorrow? You don't know if that'll be true until the day ends. It's a physical impossibility unless you have some sinister plan to burn down the house or have it destroyed by some other means.
Why is that so much easier to believe in than a higher being? Simply because you've had a roof over your head for your entire life? That doesn't mean anything when tomorrow comes and your house suddenly goes up in flames. Yet, you still believe that you're going to be in your bed tomorrow night in the comfort of your own home.
The fact is, you believe in something that you can't see. I believe in something that I can't see. The only difference is what I can't see is a little bit more life-changing. Disagree with my beliefs? Fine, but don't dare mock me because I believe in something.
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Faith and belief are two vastly differing concepts that get routinely used in place of each other. Faith is an epistemological conundrum because it defines objectively that which is not known or further; knowable. Belief is a concept similar to desire, or more appropriately: hope. Consider belief to be "hopeful necessity", which encompasses both adjectives fully.
When someone says they have faith in something, they are by association encompassing belief through that faith. For if you can make the jump that a certain god is (Biblical or not), you must also have the hope that such a god exists. However, it is possible to believe that a god is, but not be so arrogant as to suggest that any concept of such a god is knowable through faith. That is why I say that I believe that God exists, albeit God is unknowable so I don't pretend to have faith in any component of Him.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215541 is a reply to message #215462] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 08:33 |
icedog90
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Registered: April 2003
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| puddle_splasher wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 03:01 |
I already stated that we do not want to know of people that have been "dead" for seconds or minutes, because that argument goes along the lines that say:- because the heart stops doesnt mean you are dead. When all body functions stop, thats really when you are dead.
the heart pumps blood that carries the oxygen that goes to the brain.......blah blah blah, its all medical.
However ther is NO-ONE that has ever brought anyone BACK FROM BEING DEAD. It does take a genius to understand and accept this, even the village idiot comprehends that his pet mouse is dead. otherwise every grave will be getting dug up and everyone coming back to us.
The person that has crowned and understands better than most is BLAZER.
We can discuss all day and no-one will change their minds. Its a totally useless discussion.
Stick with your faith until you see your younger brother dead at 27, followed on a few years later by his Son, my nephew 15. Then tell me there is a God working for a better need and we will still argue otherwise.
Ask me if I believe in God and you will get another different concept.
We shall see when my time comes if I was right.
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I'm afraid you're one of the "worse" arguers/debaters. I was also talking about people who have been dead for hours, or days. You're getting way ahead of yourself and fighting something that isn't even there in this thread. The only person who is trying to change people's minds here in this topic is the starter. He (or she) hasn't posted ONE reply, and you're running around saying that everyone is trying to change another's mind. Please, knock it off and wake up. We're only defending anything that has to do with Christianity, ourselves, and anything else that has been defended in here.
[Updated on: Sun, 27 August 2006 08:44] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Jesus [message #215543 is a reply to message #215533] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 08:35 |
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| Javaxcx wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 11:26 |
However, it is possible to believe that a god is, but not be so arrogant as to suggest that any concept of such a god is knowable through faith. That is why I say that I believe that God exists, albeit God is unknowable so I don't pretend to have faith in any component of Him.
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Well, to me, God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient. While I don't know this to be true, and cannot further be proven, this is what I accept as truth.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Jesus [message #215546 is a reply to message #215250] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 08:40 |
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Dover
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Religion is cheap. Religion is easy. It gives a simpliestic answer to the near unanswerable.
In response to Hydra's sample Athiest/Theist coversation:
The evidence backing up the religious, creationist answer is no more concrete than the big bang theory. True, I cannot explain how the world came to be, but "The guy up there did it" is just too simple of an answer.
Religion was created by man, taking Christianity as an example (Because it's widespread), The bible was written and published by men. The gospels were men. Their stories were about men. The prophets were men. Jesus is believed to be the son of god, but he was on earth in the form of man. Religion is an institution created by man. So it's absolutely teaming of human error.
I cannot--and will not--spend my life muttering into the sky hoping for things to go my way.
History tells us (Or at least, it tells me) that more harm from good comes from the institution of religion. Therefore I avoid it.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215548 is a reply to message #215543] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 08:41 |
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Javaxcx
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Location: Canada, eh?
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| j_ball430 wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 11:35 |
| Javaxcx wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 11:26 |
However, it is possible to believe that a god is, but not be so arrogant as to suggest that any concept of such a god is knowable through faith. That is why I say that I believe that God exists, albeit God is unknowable so I don't pretend to have faith in any component of Him.
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Well, to me, God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient. While I don't know this to be true, and cannot further be proven, this is what I accept as truth.
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It's entirely possible to accept something as truth and admit it unprovable. You accept it as truth because you believe it to be true; not because you are as arrogant as to say it is objectively true and of that there is no question. Faith is a stubborn mistriss, and would do even the most devout believers good to be rid of it.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215554 is a reply to message #215550] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 08:53 |
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Dover
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| j_ball430 wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 08:44 |
Do you not put trust in others? You can't see, touch, or feel people's true intentions. You don't know if they're out to get you or not, yet you still put trust in them.
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Well, personally I put trust exclusively in people who have proved trustworthy before, such as close friends and family. People who I've had past experiences with, which make me reasonable sure of their intentions. Which renders your arguement ineffective, since relgions don't have an equivilent for past experiences, except for "I was raised a (Insert relgion here)", which is a stupid reason to believe in anything. Or "I once had (Insert random 'miricle' here) happen to me!", which usually gets giant holes punched in it.
And you can "feel" a person's intentions, in a way. Can't you tell when someone is lying, or when someone means you harm?
Trust isn't "given" to anyone or "put" anywhere. It's earned.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215557 is a reply to message #215554] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 08:58 |
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| Dover wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 11:53 |
Well, personally I put trust exclusively in people who have proved trustworthy before, such as close friends and family. People who I've had past experiences with, which make me reasonable sure of their intentions. Which renders your arguement ineffective...
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Again with my argument with glyde, you're only relying on what you know from past experiences. That has no bearing if tomorrow someone goes behind your back and ruins any and all trust that you had in them. Simply because you trusted them before doesn't mean they'll keep being trustworthy. You, however, believe that they will.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Jesus [message #215561 is a reply to message #215557] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 09:10 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
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Location: Monterey, California
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| j_ball430 wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 08:58 |
| Dover wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 11:53 |
Well, personally I put trust exclusively in people who have proved trustworthy before, such as close friends and family. People who I've had past experiences with, which make me reasonable sure of their intentions. Which renders your arguement ineffective...
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Again with my argument with glyde, you're only relying on what you know from past experiences. That has no bearing if tomorrow someone goes behind your back and ruins any and all trust that you had in them. Simply because you trusted them before doesn't mean they'll keep being trustworthy. You, however, believe that they will.
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Shit happens. If someone does that, I stop trusting them, since my past experiences with them and now muddied with backstabbery.
But basically, yeah. People who have been trustworthy in the past have a tendency to keep being trustworthy. I don't see anything wrong with that.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215562 is a reply to message #215555] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 09:12 |
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Dover
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Location: Monterey, California
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| warranto wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 08:54 |
| pulverizer wrote on Sun, 27 August 2006 09:35 |
I don't believe things I cannot see, touch or feel  .
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Ugh.. too easy. I almost can't help myself.
Let's see here... things you can not see, touch, or feel:
The fact that your parents are truly your own parents;
Molecules;
The mind ( I don't mean the brain, but rather the consciousness);
The Ozone layer;
Space;
Other planets;
Radio waves;
Wireless internet signals;
Electricity;
Data being written to a hard drive;
ok, that's enough for now.
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Human senses are far from perfect, but all these things can be captured, utilized, measured, controlled, or a combonation of the above. God is not a measureable quantity.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215568 is a reply to message #215250] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 09:22 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
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History has proven things like:
-DNA testing for parental testing
-Electron microscopes
-Those brain-activity-measure-doohickies
-Telescopes
-Radios
-Wireless internet routers
-Electricity
-Hard drives
To hold truth almost all the time. The same cannot be said for God.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Jesus [message #215575 is a reply to message #215571] |
Sun, 27 August 2006 09:55 |
runewood
Messages: 138
Registered: October 2005
Location: SE Michigan
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While this is a great argument, what is the point? Can anyone tell me what they hope to accomplish at the end of this topic?
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man. Let history make it's own judgments."
"Maybe its not the destination that matters, but the journey."
"How many people does it take before its wrong? A thousand? Fifty thousand? A million?"
"Im not here to tell you how it is going to end, Im here to tell you how it is going to begin."
"Its not the end or even the beggining of the end, mearly the end of the beggining."
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end."
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