| The Pits allows cheaters on their server? [message #97678] |
Sun, 27 June 2004 21:04  |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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The comments coming from an admin in my own community, IRC messages and conversations being had by those who I had considered my friends, and the attempt to place the responsibility of an application failing, on to our community..... basically has me speechless.
I've read plenty of logs in the last 48 hours, and seen how we are treated when we choose server stability over running an application as an "ethical responsibility".
I refuse to play games of politics, to see who can rub the most shoulders and get what they want. I will not let a few BHS members and their friends deride the good name of our community, because we are not doing something they wish that we were. I will make a public stand instead, and let everyone know why we don't condone these types of conversations. You believe you are making fun of the cheaters, but in reality, you are attempting to rub our noses in the fact that we aren't participating.
I am sorry for folks like mac, and others, who have spent countless hours attempting to provide a solution for the community as a whole. But even they will stand up and acknowledge that there are certain issues with the software which they do not have answers for.
Mac spent an entire evening last week, creating a version of the SSC for us which would go through the motions of kicking players, but not actually kick them, and the option to turn off the host messages on the server end too. He did this so we could work together to resolve the issue of the FDS kicking all 40 players and disconnecting the server 1 game after we start it up.
Crimson, did you happen to discuss the results of all this with him? Did he tell you that it worked just as he anticipated. until we turned on the flag to again kick the players? At which point, it emptied our server and rebooted it..(again)
You publicly proclaim that "The pits allows cheaters" and you'll be playing on another server. In the last few days, I've seen a number of comments from other "non regular" members who leave a game after a few minutes with the comment "I'm going to go see if anyone is in the n00b servers, at least they run renguard"
What you say rubs off on people, especially if you are not providing them with the complete and honest truth. Which is we HAVE tried to help you. we HAVE tried to work with you, to get Renguard to a stable and acceptable application. The FACT of the matter is, it is not. Not that "we just want to allow cheaters"
Even your own network is stumbling currently. Your servers can not handle the load as you originally anticipated. You have asked in every forum which you have been allowed, for contributions to expand the RG network. And yet today, you can't allow stats to be ran off the RG web site, because the servers are overloaded. <- These are not our problems, but I would be a fool to allow my own applications and programs to rely on them. I will not let an unstable, external application dictate whether or not my own server can be running and have players in it.
When you start telling the community these FACTS when you tell them that we allow cheaters, we'll have no problems.
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| The Pits allows cheaters on their server? [message #97685] |
Sun, 27 June 2004 21:44  |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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No ack.. here lies the perfect example of my entire point.
You, crimson, "genKozar" (her brother I presume) and anyone else that feels the need is 100% okay with coming to my server and publicly denouncing our choice to remove Renguard at this time. You have no problems with ridiculing us in public, on our own server; making comments about us "allowing cheaters" to play on our servers, making fun of our statements that RG is definately crashing our server, and attempting to persuade everyone who can read it that we are "being silly"
And yet, you wish I would have confronted those involved in private.
fuck that.. It was all of you that brought it public.
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| The Pits allows cheaters on their server? [message #97687] |
Sun, 27 June 2004 21:52 |
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YSLMuffins
Messages: 1144
Registered: February 2003
Location: Moved a long time ago (it...
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Moderator - Mod Forum |
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I'm not trying to get involved (haven't been playing quite recently, so this is new to me) but I have a biting question: Renguard seemed to be working fine shortly after June 1st, or whenever it was. I remember witnessing on the Pitts a full server with Renguard running for many times, and then Renguard stopped being run on the Pitts. That's all I know--what caused the instability to start?
-YSLMuffins
The goddess of all (bread products)
See me online as yslcheeze
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| The Pits allows cheaters on their server? [message #97690] |
Sun, 27 June 2004 22:25 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| YSLMuffins |
Renguard seemed to be working fine shortly after June 1st, or whenever it was. what caused the instability to start?
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Because I have no working knowledge of Renguard, it's network, it's code, etc.. All I can do is describe symptoms which we see, and hope they can pinpoint where the problem is coming from.
If renguard is started when there are people in the server, it doesn't seem to be able to "scan" them all right when it's started up. it waits between 10-30 minutes, and all I can assume is that "something" is fired, which tells it there are X number of people that need to be kicked, and it sends all the commands at once. In one swoop, the server goes from 40 players to 15 and then we get Westwood Online Connection Loss, and a restart.
If the SSC loses connection to the master servers, the same happens when the connection is reestablished.
The ONLY way the RG SSC works correctly is when IT is started first, THEN then FDS is started, THEN players join, and nothing ever loses connection to anything. Once the FDS loses connection to WOL and reboots, or the RG SSC loses connection to the master server, it all crashes in whichever way it wants, until someone logs in to the server, shuts everything down, starts the SSC again, then starts the FDS.. etc..
Unfortunately, this is simply not a solution to the problem.. it would be considered a band aid, and one that I am not interested in considering; therefore "I" allow cheaters on my server.
Also.. it has to be said, for the benefit of those reading this thread, that I have absolutely NO contempt for the RG application, or those who have spent hundreds to thousands of hours to make it a reality. My problem lies in the way we (The Pits) are treated when we chose not to run this application, which we feel is simply not ready for prime time. If BHS and all of their wonderful coders chose to continue to spend their time working out the issues and eliminating these crashes, we have absolutely no qualms about running the application and supporting it's cause. I simply will not allow The Pits to be drug through the mud with public comments which attempt to place the applications "failure on our server" back in our laps, then be ostracized like some black sheep who doesn't want to be part of the "solution"
[Updated on: Sun, 27 June 2004 22:39] Report message to a moderator |
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| The Pits allows cheaters on their server? [message #97691] |
Sun, 27 June 2004 22:25 |
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YSLMuffins
Messages: 1144
Registered: February 2003
Location: Moved a long time ago (it...
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Moderator - Mod Forum |
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| Aircraftkiller |
For some reason, RG keeps kicking people too often in quick succession. When this happens, it causes the server to restart because the FDS can't handle that many kicks in a short period of time.
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Oh, that, I remember reading Crimson's comments on that one time. I thought it was solved already, so I am mistaken. :-\
Edit: included quote since this wound up after pain's post.
PS: Gotta love Opera. I just had a freak power outage and EVERYTHING that I wrote was saved!
-YSLMuffins
The goddess of all (bread products)
See me online as yslcheeze
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| The Pits allows cheaters on their server? [message #97692] |
Sun, 27 June 2004 22:43 |
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YSLMuffins
Messages: 1144
Registered: February 2003
Location: Moved a long time ago (it...
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Moderator - Mod Forum |
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| msgtpain |
Because I have no working knowledge of Renguard, it's network, it's code, etc.. All I can do is describe symptoms which we see, and hope they can pinpoint where the problem is coming from...
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Well, I have not witnessed this myself so I won't comment on the matter further. But I will say that I'm rather touched at all of the efforts of BHS, and all of these problems to me just goes to show that Renguard needs some contributions...
-YSLMuffins
The goddess of all (bread products)
See me online as yslcheeze
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| The Pits allows cheaters on their server? [message #97694] |
Sun, 27 June 2004 23:00 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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My brother's knowledge of the internals of RenGuard is limited at best, and Blazer and I often joke about people who blame everything on RenGuard. Someone was suspected to cheat on the Pits, someone else said "No, they run RenGuard", someone else corrected them, them my brother made some jokes about people who don't use RenGuard.
As a result, one of the pits admins made "RenGuard" a swear word so that anyone who said it would be kicked.
Personally I laughed my ass off at their jokes and thought it was over the line to start warning people for making jokes.
As for my "public announcement", it's on my away message when I play Renegade that I'm not going to play on the server until RenGuard is back. I do not find it fun to play on a server where I have to wonder if the person who killed me is cheating. It's a very simple fact.
Sometimes I am confused because my BRenBot can kick 20 players at a time when I restart it and I don't drop from WOL. When I don't experience the problem it makes it hard for us to troubleshoot it and you become the guinea pig since you're the only one with the problem.
The reason I suppressed stats is because mySQL uses too much processor when I run the stats and I haven't had a chance to fix the table structure. Big deal.
Now please stop blowing this out of proportion. I acknowledge that you are having problems with the SSC and we are working on the problem not with bandaid fixes, but with something that will improve the program and the network overall.
I'm the bawss.
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| The Pits allows cheaters on their server? [message #97695] |
Sun, 27 June 2004 23:04 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Administrator/General |
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I just thought I would mention that RG does have several issues which are known to us, and they should be fixed in the soon to be released version. Among the SSC-specific fixes are:
1. A kick delay, so that when more than 1 person is kicked at a time the commands are not sent so fast as to disrupt the FDS.
2. pamsg notification of kicks. pamsg is basically a private "amsg", which is the FDS command that pops up a full screen message that you have to click OK on. pamsg will do this same thing except only to the person being kicked. This allows us to use this much more effective way of communicating with the person being kicked, instead of the current spamming of "player is being kicked for..." 3 times.
RenGuard 1.1 along with Core Patch 1 is going to be a major improvement in both RG and Renegade gameplay itself, as CP1 will be fixing many engine bugs.
I know this has nothing to do with the issue in this thread, but I wanted to post it anyway to let folks like Shane know that we do realize RG has some issues and we are striving to fix them and make RG stable enough for anyone to use it and feel comfortable about it.
As for the issue itself, msgtpain probably doesn't realize that RG causing problems is a sensitive spot with BHS, as we are constantly plauged with users reporting problems that are definitely not RG related...people have even claimed that RG literally destroyed their computer...as in smoke came out of it and it shut down! So, being bombarded with that kind of stuff all the time probably makes us more apt to poke fun at it and be passionate about the subject.
BHS is dedicated to supporting Renegade and we will do whatever it takes to make RG stable.
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| The Pits allows cheaters on their server? [message #97697] |
Sun, 27 June 2004 23:08 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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For reference so you can judge for yourself what happened, here are the logs:
[13:05] [@GameBot]: [15:09] ArmedZagi: zibabwe u use big head?
[13:05] [@GameBot]: [15:09] htmlgod15: not in a renguard server
[13:05] [@GameBot]: [15:09] magiczs99: no he doesnt
[13:05] [@GameBot]: [15:09] htmlgod15: lol
[13:05] [@GameBot]: [15:09] ArmedZagi: k
[13:06] [@GameBot]: [15:09] scythar: This isn't RG
[13:06] [@GameBot]: [15:09] htmlgod15: it isn't?
[13:06] [@GameBot]: [15:09] scythar: Nope
[13:06] [@GameBot]: [15:09] magiczs99: rengaurd sucks anyways
[13:06] [@GameBot]: [15:10] genlkozar: motd said it was
[13:06] [@GameBot]: [15:10] ArmedZagi: ya
[13:06] [@GameBot]: [15:10] scythar: True
[13:06] [@GameBot]: [15:10] genlkozar: of course cheaters think renguard sux
[13:06] [@GameBot]: [15:10] scythar: This was RG but it was causing issues...
[13:07] [@GameBot]: [15:10] genlkozar: renguard causes skin cancer too
-- insert a bunch of jokes about RenGuard burning toast, etc... at which point Jarhead says:
[13:19] [@GameBot]: [15:23] Host: (Jarhead): enough jupiter
... ACK stops making jokes, genlkozar (my brother) cracks a few more. A few minutes later they are talking about RA and C4Kitty mentions that her RA CD burned when her office burned...
[13:23] [@GameBot]: [15:27] genlkozar: rengaurd burned c4kittes room to the ground
[13:23] [@GameBot]: [15:27] Host: This is auto-warning number 1 genlkozar, you'll only get 3.
[13:24] [@GameBot]: [15:28] genlkozar: renguard
[13:24] [@GameBot]: [15:28] Host: This is auto-warning number 2 genlkozar, you'll only get 3.
At that point Jarhead had added "RenGuard" to the swear filter. When the map ended...
[13:34] [@GameBot]: [15:38] genlkozar: well that was enough ownage for one server, gotta go to one that wont kick me for saying renguard
[13:34] [@GameBot]: [15:38] Host: This is auto-warning number 3 genlkozar, you'll only get 3.
[13:34] [@GameBot]: [15:38] JupitersK: LOL
[13:34] [@GameBot]: [15:38] JupitersK: I didn't know RG was a bad word now
[13:34] [@GameBot]: [15:38] htmlgod15: RENGUARD
[13:34] [@GameBot]: [15:38] Host: This is auto-warning number 1 htmlgod15, you'll only get 3.
[13:35] [@GameBot]: [15:38] scythar: Only for him 
[13:35] [@GameBot]: [15:38] JupitersK: lol
[13:35] [@GameBot]: [15:38] htmlgod15: lol
And that's it... you can be the judge.
I'm the bawss.
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| The Pits allows cheaters on their server? [message #97702] |
Sun, 27 June 2004 23:28 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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Here are all the jokes by popular request:
genlkozar: renguard causes skin cancer too
genlkozar: rengaurd made my wife leave me for another man
genlkozar: rengaurd assassinated Kennedy AND Lincoln
genlkozar: the nuclear Power plant at Chernobyl was running rengaurd when it had that meltdown
htmlgod15: renguard is what made reborn suck
JupitersK: Reborn made itself suck
genlkozar: rengaurd makes you fat
genlkozar: if rengaurd found your wallet, it would probably keep it for itself
JupitersK: Renguard slept with my girlfriend last night
JupitersK: RenGuard gave me herpes
scythar: "I demand you uninstall Renguard from my toaster immediately"
genlkozar: rengaurd burnt your toast too?
JupitersK: With one fifteen minute call to RenGuard you can save 15% or more on car insurance.
genlkozar: I ate some renguard and took a big poo and it clogged my toilet
genlkozar: the rengaurd in my dryer makes me lose 1 sock per load
ArmedZagi: and rips his undies
JupitersK: RenGuard made me wet my bed
genlkozar: rengaurd causes premature ejaculation
genlkozar: rengaurd burned c4kittes room to the ground
I'm the bawss.
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| The Pits allows cheaters on their server? [message #97721] |
Mon, 28 June 2004 02:16 |
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mac
Messages: 1018
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Administrator/General |
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I will be fixing the SSC for the pits as soon as I can.
It just isn't easy because currently I do not have much free time, and so much other RG /renegade related stuff I have todo..
| Quote: |
danpaul88: buggy bugs brenbot because buggy befriends brainlessness
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so no wonder it sucked but now it will not "suck" like u say 
