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| The Universe *similar to time travel thread* [message #174240] |
Mon, 10 October 2005 13:32  |
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Mindtzar
Messages: 108
Registered: April 2004
Location: U.K.
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Now, I'm sure I'll hear lots of great opinions and explanations/theories from you all.
What has been really getting to my head latley is the Universe.
If you imagine, what was here before the universe? Did the universe just start existing? or was something else involved.
Can you imagine the universe just always being there, that really boggles my mind.
Is there an edge to the universe? if you reach the edge will you appear on the other side like in a Mario game 
www . MindTzar . com
[Updated on: Mon, 10 October 2005 13:34] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Universe *similar to time travel thread* [message #174247 is a reply to message #174240] |
Mon, 10 October 2005 15:36  |
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The History of Creation
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; 6 but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
8 The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. 9 And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
10 Now a river went out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it parted and became four riverheads. 11 The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one which skirts the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good. Bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one which goes around the whole land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is Hiddekel; it is the one which goes toward the east of Assyria. The fourth river is the Euphrates.
15 Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
18 And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” 19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
23 And Adam said:
“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
That about explains my beliefs.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: The Universe *similar to time travel thread* [message #174248 is a reply to message #174247] |
Mon, 10 October 2005 15:54 |
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| j_ball430 wrote on Mon, 10 October 2005 17:36 |
The History of Creation
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; 6 but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
8 The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. 9 And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
10 Now a river went out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it parted and became four riverheads. 11 The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one which skirts the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good. Bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one which goes around the whole land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is Hiddekel; it is the one which goes toward the east of Assyria. The fourth river is the Euphrates.
15 Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
18 And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” 19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
23 And Adam said:
“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
That about explains my beliefs.
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I agree, thats the only thing that makes sence to me. I mean how can there be nothing and then something blows up. What is there to blow up. God has always been there and always will. The reason we dont understand it is because he is so great and we are....well .....so small.
| HORQWER wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 20:47 |
this is not a real renegade forums ,some one made it up
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Renegade Forums - Official Drama Perpetuator.
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| Re: The Universe *similar to time travel thread* [message #174252 is a reply to message #174240] |
Mon, 10 October 2005 17:27 |
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prox
Messages: 580
Registered: August 2003
Location: NYC
Karma: 0
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I believe in God on top of everything. However, here's something to think about:
Not IF, but WHEN extraterrestrial life is discovered (because we're obviously not the only ones in the universe...that'll be a huge waste of space,) wouldn't that kill a lot of people's fate in God? Since on the Bible, it only talks about God creating life on Earth.
My other thought is that God put the stars so far away to torment men knowing they'll never be able to reach 'em.
What if, space does have an edge, but all the bends in space prevent anyone [capable of FTL travel] from reaching it?
http://artpad.art.com/gallery/?ic11sjerh0w
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| Re: The Universe *similar to time travel thread* [message #174262 is a reply to message #174240] |
Mon, 10 October 2005 19:50 |
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bigejoe14
Messages: 1302
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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There is a whole lot of space out there, but it's not obvious whether or not there is other life. Which takes us back to your "when" and "if" question. It is indeed an "if" question. Unless you have proof that they do exist (none of this "I saw it on the Discovery Channel" crap) then it's not totaly obvious.
WHATEVER, FAGGOT
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| Re: The Universe *similar to time travel thread* [message #174270 is a reply to message #174240] |
Mon, 10 October 2005 20:52 |
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Dave Anderson
Messages: 1953
Registered: December 2004
Location: United States
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Quote: |
The History of Creation
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; 6 but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
8 The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. 9 And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
10 Now a river went out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it parted and became four riverheads. 11 The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one which skirts the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good. Bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one which goes around the whole land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is Hiddekel; it is the one which goes toward the east of Assyria. The fourth river is the Euphrates.
15 Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
18 And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” 19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
23 And Adam said:
“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
That about explains my beliefs.
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Right on man!
Anyway, to me, we are not the only ones in space...Even if God didn't mention "aliens" in the bible, there has to be more out there than us. What I think, is that God wants us to find out ourselves over time. All that universe, all the other planets, an unlimited amount of questions that you can ask. Not every question is answerable, nor explainable. Someday, IF, we find "aliens", that would be cool. But truly, I doubt we ever will, we will probobly go into a nuclear war and destroy ourselves and the earth before that ever happens.
David Anderson
Founder, Software Consultant
DCOM Productions
Microsoft Partner (MSP)
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| Re: The Universe *similar to time travel thread* [message #174307 is a reply to message #174301] |
Tue, 11 October 2005 08:48 |
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| gbull wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 11:32 |
If God exists, what created him? did he just come from no where?
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| JeepRubi wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 11:32 |
God has always been there and always will.
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| Mindtzar wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 10:29 |
Oh god, half of are you are jesus loving faggots blinded by religion.
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you asked a question we gave you an anser now if you dont like it thats your fault.
| HORQWER wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 20:47 |
this is not a real renegade forums ,some one made it up
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Renegade Forums - Official Drama Perpetuator.
[Updated on: Tue, 11 October 2005 08:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Universe *similar to time travel thread* [message #174321 is a reply to message #174313] |
Tue, 11 October 2005 10:17 |
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Renerage
Messages: 1223
Registered: May 2005
Location: Hamilton ON, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| SuperMidget wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 12:55 |
I believe that the universe is a gigantic sphere. That there is no 'edge'. Say you travel directly off of earth, eventually you will end back to your orginal start point. (well, the other side of earth, but DIRECTLY the other side.)
Once while I was high, I thought about MIB and how the universe was on the kitty's necklace? Well I thought, "What if the universe is nothing but a small ball on some creature's necklace? A 'Jewel' if you will, that is common and given to other creatures as gifts or fashion. What if WE are just some mirco-mirco-mirco organism?"
VERY trippy.
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Then my friend, we are small/insignificant and doomed to be a plaything of some animals.
WHo knows, looking back at futurama, the universe could be a box in our living room.
When you think of a micro organism, IF they had brains, im sure they would think "hey the universe is all around me" Well, no shit sherlock.
But to an organism that small, the universe seems bigger then it really is.
Who knows, maybe were so small compared to big things that people look at us like micro organisms.
Hmm raises Eyebrows.
But still, wrong. Lol, we know the universe to exist and not be on an animals necklace.
A pissed off noob Once said:
I DESLIKE YOU!
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| Re: The Universe *similar to time travel thread* [message #174326 is a reply to message #174321] |
Tue, 11 October 2005 10:34 |
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SuperMidget
Messages: 465
Registered: November 2004
Location: Barrie, ON
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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| cheekay77 wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 13:17 |
| SuperMidget wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 12:55 |
I believe that the universe is a gigantic sphere. That there is no 'edge'. Say you travel directly off of earth, eventually you will end back to your orginal start point. (well, the other side of earth, but DIRECTLY the other side.)
Once while I was high, I thought about MIB and how the universe was on the kitty's necklace? Well I thought, "What if the universe is nothing but a small ball on some creature's necklace? A 'Jewel' if you will, that is common and given to other creatures as gifts or fashion. What if WE are just some mirco-mirco-mirco organism?"
VERY trippy.
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Then my friend, we are small/insignificant and doomed to be a plaything of some animals.
WHo knows, looking back at futurama, the universe could be a box in our living room.
When you think of a micro organism, IF they had brains, im sure they would think "hey the universe is all around me" Well, no shit sherlock.
But to an organism that small, the universe seems bigger then it really is.
Who knows, maybe were so small compared to big things that people look at us like micro organisms.
Hmm raises Eyebrows.
But still, wrong. Lol, we know the universe to exist and not be on an animals necklace.
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But HOW do we know for sure? It's too big for us to know this. 
I'm not intending that my drug-induced hallicunation is fact, I was merely sharing some crazy experience I once had 
Wanna fight? www.hobowars.com
Bring it on...
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| Re: The Universe *similar to time travel thread* [message #174342 is a reply to message #174299] |
Tue, 11 October 2005 12:30 |
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Oblivion165
Messages: 3468
Registered: June 2003
Location: Hendersonville, North Car...
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| Mindtzar wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 11:29 |
Oh god, half of are you are jesus loving faggots blinded by religion.
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I was once like you. Until i found jesus.
Hehe
WOL: Ob165ion Skype: Oblivion165 Yahoo Instant Messenger: CaptainJohn165
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| Re: The Universe *similar to time travel thread* [message #174346 is a reply to message #174322] |
Tue, 11 October 2005 13:06 |
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| pulverizer wrote on Tue, 11 October 2005 12:29 |
Something so powerfull that it had to create itself.
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You dont get it. How many times do i have to say it.
God did not create himseld and nothing created him. God has ALWAYS existed.
| HORQWER wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 20:47 |
this is not a real renegade forums ,some one made it up
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,) maybe not in our son's, but maybe in our grandson's. 
