Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Virginia Tech Massacre
| Re: Virginia Tech Massacre [message #254528 is a reply to message #254518] |
Wed, 18 April 2007 07:31   |
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Crusader
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| Nodbugger wrote on Wed, 18 April 2007 09:51 |
| j_ball430 wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 00:41 |
Your first instinct is survival. Plus, the guy was obviously very accurate and lethal with his shots. It seems that he didn't fire too many rounds, but he did quite a bit of damage with just a couple of handguns.
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Witnesses say he just randomly fired and was not aiming at all.
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Actually he was aiming very well. Here is a quote from CNN:
"A doctor at a Blacksburg hospital described the injuries he saw Monday as "amazing" and the shooter as "brutal." "There wasn't a shooting victim that didn't have less than three bullet wounds in them," said Dr. Joseph Cacioppo of Montgomery Regional Hospital."
You can read more here: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vtech.wounded/index.html
PS: Hey, I don't disagree with your opinions. I am sure that I could have, just as you, maintained a cool head. But look at the facts: it was an engineering building with people studying German, French, Physics...they were NOT in an ROTC Leadership course.
AND YET, you MUST give credit to the student(s) who pressed themselves against the door. The scumbag shot through the door and left when he could not get in. So there you go: 4 lives saved.
The students CANNOT be blamed. They expect security to be provided by the campus police. They were there to study...not to hear a gun go off and stop a monster.
Also, you have to look at the human phychology. Like gbull clearly puts it, we humans have obligations...to ourselves and to our loved ones. So the first human (to most humans atleast) reaction would be to retreat to a safe zone.
They were only students...just as the businessmen/women/ordinary civilians in the First Class of the hijacked 9/11 aircraft. They were on the plane so they can go on their routine lives...not stop mad terrorists. Since they were surprised, they were overwhelmed...and yet there were acts of heroism in 9/11.
[Updated on: Wed, 18 April 2007 07:39] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Virginia Tech Massacre [message #254545 is a reply to message #254284] |
Wed, 18 April 2007 09:26 |
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Crimson
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It would have been kind of cool if some student was packing heat and "took care" of the situation a little earlier.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Virginia Tech Massacre [message #254563 is a reply to message #254334] |
Wed, 18 April 2007 10:59 |
puddle_splasher
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| Nodbugger wrote on Mon, 16 April 2007 23:25 |
There are people I know, including myself, who would instantly think to attack the guy shooting at us in any way possible. It takes time to kill 30 people.
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This may be true, but I believe that the survival instinct kicks in, to protect you where possible from further harm.
Do you rush with no weapon and get shot, possibly fatally or hide and hope that he misses you?
In all honesty, no-one can tuly answer this until they have came face to face with any incident of this nature.
[Updated on: Wed, 18 April 2007 11:08] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Virginia Tech Massacre [message #254564 is a reply to message #254563] |
Wed, 18 April 2007 11:11 |
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Crusader
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| puddle_splasher wrote on Wed, 18 April 2007 13:59 |
| Nodbugger wrote on Mon, 16 April 2007 23:25 |
There are people I know, including myself, who would instantly think to attack the guy shooting at us in any way possible. It takes time to kill 30 people.
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In all honesty, no-one can tuly answer this until they have came face to face with any incident of this nature.
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So true...even highly trained soldiers' perceptions of war change during/after their first combat engagement.
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| Re: Virginia Tech Massacre [message #254574 is a reply to message #254284] |
Wed, 18 April 2007 12:45 |
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Sniper_De7
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Today or tommorow, you really can't put blame on the school. I mean, if anything, it would probably be better that it happened after a shooting because response might be quicker. A guy who's got two guns probably didn't do this in the spur of the moment. I'm sure he could have easily waited a couple days 'til school was functioning. Like I said, you can't really blame the school for it, unless of course psychologically. I don't really think that's their job as opposed to his parents or whoever. However you can just shame the school for not following protocol just because it would be standard to close it down after a shooting. Just that it wouldn't have stopped what was going to happen eventually.
Oderint, dum metuant.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
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| Re: Virginia Tech Massacre [message #254624 is a reply to message #254545] |
Wed, 18 April 2007 16:27 |
MexPirate
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| Crimson wrote on Wed, 18 April 2007 11:26 |
It would have been kind of cool if some student was packing heat and "took care" of the situation a little earlier.
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Ironically this was the view of the person who sold one of the guns used in the attack, he blamed the school for it's no gun policy and harsh punishments for being caught with one, saying that if there had been armed security or other students with guns the situation could have been handled. He also said he plans to continue trading - Americas gun laws are one of the problems, you shouldn't be able to buy guns and ammunition over the counter like that.
It's a mexican pirate .... F*ck a dog by Blink 182
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| Re: Virginia Tech Massacre [message #254629 is a reply to message #254624] |
Wed, 18 April 2007 18:01 |
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| MexPirate wrote on Wed, 18 April 2007 19:27 |
| Crimson wrote on Wed, 18 April 2007 11:26 |
It would have been kind of cool if some student was packing heat and "took care" of the situation a little earlier.
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Ironically this was the view of the person who sold one of the guns used in the attack, he blamed the school for it's no gun policy and harsh punishments for being caught with one, saying that if there had been armed security or other students with guns the situation could have been handled. He also said he plans to continue trading - Americas gun laws are one of the problems, you shouldn't be able to buy guns and ammunition over the counter like that.
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I think that there should be some background checks, but I see no real issue with just being able to buy guns. Alcohol can be just as dangerous if a vehicle is involved.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Virginia Tech Massacre [message #254638 is a reply to message #254284] |
Wed, 18 April 2007 19:17 |
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Canadacdn
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Wow, those assholes from the Westboro Baptist Church are going to picket the funerals of the poor kids that lost their lives at Virginia Tech. That's sickening.
I can say that I honestly would lose no sleep if I slit all of their throats with a rusty knife.
From their site "godhatesamerica.com"
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WBC to Preach at Funerals of Virginia Tech Dead
WBC will preach at the funerals of the Virginia Tech students killed on campus during a shooting rampage April 16, 2007. You describe this as monumental horror, but you know nothing of horror -- yet. Your bloody tyrant Bush says he is 'horrified' by it all. You know nothing of horror -- yet. Your true horror is coming. "They shall also gird themselves with sackloth, and horror shall cover them; and shame shall be upon all faces, and baldness upon all their heads" (Eze. 7:18).
Why did this happen, you ask? It's simple. On April 16, 2007, this nation, through the offices of your military and conspirators therewith took a shot at the servants of God -- your marksman was limp and lame and he had terror all around, so he did a lousy job. But what you get for your trouble is that your God shot at you! The LORD your God sent a crazed madman to shoot at your children, and he didn't miss. Get this straight -- God sent this South Korean madman to kill 31 of your children at Virginia Tech. Was God asleep while this took place? Was He on vacation? Of course not. He willed this to happen to punish you for assailing His servants.
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Someone run them all over. Please. Well, maybe not the kids. They don't know any better.
[Updated on: Wed, 18 April 2007 19:20] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Virginia Tech Massacre [message #254639 is a reply to message #254284] |
Wed, 18 April 2007 19:22 |
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NukeIt15
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And that's after acquiring a purchaser's permit, I'd wager. It can take months to legally acquire one of those, and you need one for every single handgun you buy in most places if not everywhere. You are not allowed to purchase any firearm if you have been convicted of a felony or a domestic violence charge, if you have a documented history of drinking, are taking medication or have been institutionalized for any sort of mental illness... the list goes on.
Basically, you have to be squeaky-clean if you want to buy a gun in this country unless you have a damned good excuse for whatever marks you've got on your record. Remember that we live in a country that presumes innocence until a court of law proves guilt; that someone may at some time in the future commit a crime is not a valid reason to deny any right or privilege to a citizen or legal resident of the US.
If this fellow was institutionalized once before, as I've heard is true, then he shouldn't have been able to legally acquire those weapons in the first place. Either he bought them illegally or he somehow circumvented the system- which is the same thing, really. In other words, any argument for more gun control that rises from this is totally baseless, because lax enforcement of existing laws allowed him to get the weapons and not the lack of tougher laws.
I don't know what his status was as a resident, either- he was not born in the US- anyone know if he had legal resident status or just a student visa?
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: Virginia Tech Massacre [message #254671 is a reply to message #254638] |
Thu, 19 April 2007 04:08 |
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Jecht
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| Canadacdn wrote on Wed, 18 April 2007 21:17 |
Wow, those assholes from the Westboro Baptist Church are going to picket the funerals of the poor kids that lost their lives at Virginia Tech. That's sickening.
I can say that I honestly would lose no sleep if I slit all of their throats with a rusty knife.
From their site "godhatesamerica.com"
| Quote: |
WBC to Preach at Funerals of Virginia Tech Dead
WBC will preach at the funerals of the Virginia Tech students killed on campus during a shooting rampage April 16, 2007. You describe this as monumental horror, but you know nothing of horror -- yet. Your bloody tyrant Bush says he is 'horrified' by it all. You know nothing of horror -- yet. Your true horror is coming. "They shall also gird themselves with sackloth, and horror shall cover them; and shame shall be upon all faces, and baldness upon all their heads" (Eze. 7:18).
Why did this happen, you ask? It's simple. On April 16, 2007, this nation, through the offices of your military and conspirators therewith took a shot at the servants of God -- your marksman was limp and lame and he had terror all around, so he did a lousy job. But what you get for your trouble is that your God shot at you! The LORD your God sent a crazed madman to shoot at your children, and he didn't miss. Get this straight -- God sent this South Korean madman to kill 31 of your children at Virginia Tech. Was God asleep while this took place? Was He on vacation? Of course not. He willed this to happen to punish you for assailing His servants.
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Someone run them all over. Please. Well, maybe not the kids. They don't know any better.
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I can't wait for something bad to happen to them. Then we can say: You did something terrible, and this is your punishment for it. By your logic, God hates you.
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| Re: Virginia Tech Massacre [message #254687 is a reply to message #254284] |
Thu, 19 April 2007 07:34 |
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AoBfrost
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Thats exactally the type of crap that people do to make Christains look bad and all religious, they go out in the name of God and Jesus christ and blame everything on God and calling him asleep then go picket at funerals........truley I myself am Christain and man, i feel terrible for these people, they didnt even know this guy and got shot, and these people who call themselves Christain and claim are going to picket at these funerals, they cannot truley be, they are following their own corrupt way which for even me makes no sense./.....why picket at funerals.....it isnt the dead students fault for ANYTHING....and Cho Seung, God did not send him, God gave all men free will to do anything, college/highschool classmates saw signs of him being crazy, even his OWN roomate said he was crazy, no one really helped or dared to push him a bit for help, I dont blame them for him planning a massacre, but all i can say is he chose to do this, not God.
| Scrin wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 12:19 |
''whoa im the photoshop''
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KANE LIVES!!!
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| Re: Virginia Tech Massacre [message #254761 is a reply to message #254758] |
Thu, 19 April 2007 19:49 |
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Crusader
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| Crimson wrote on Thu, 19 April 2007 22:44 |
He had a green card and had lived in the US from the age of 8.
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Fucking bastard. Here I am in America...I am also an immigrant and I can't wait for the day when I will get my Green card. And I am working hard to live here and go on and this scumbag just kill his benefactors brutally and throws away everything he was given by his hardworking-parents and America.
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| Re: Virginia Tech Massacre [message #254804 is a reply to message #254284] |
Fri, 20 April 2007 05:27 |
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AoBfrost
Messages: 1248
Registered: March 2007
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I think people needed to help him and maybe this wouldnt have happened, everyone that knew/saw him on a daily bases claimed he was weird, always looking down and seemingly angry, well, why doesnt anyone push like "I said hello, least you could do is be nice and say hello back" I mean sorta rude, but it would make a breakthrough of him interacting with others, and maybe after somemore interaction he'll hang out with someone...I dunno, i mean it's better than not talking to him and letting him go this far.
| Scrin wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 12:19 |
''whoa im the photoshop''
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KANE LIVES!!!
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| Re: Virginia Tech Massacre [message #254980 is a reply to message #254639] |
Sat, 21 April 2007 13:38 |
msgtpain
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| NukeIt15 wrote on Wed, 18 April 2007 22:22 |
And that's after acquiring a purchaser's permit, I'd wager. It can take months to legally acquire one of those, and you need one for every single handgun you buy in most places if not everywhere. You are not allowed to purchase any firearm if you have been convicted of a felony or a domestic violence charge, if you have a documented history of drinking, are taking medication or have been institutionalized for any sort of mental illness... the list goes on.
Basically, you have to be squeaky-clean if you want to buy a gun in this country unless you have a damned good excuse for whatever marks you've got on your record. Remember that we live in a country that presumes innocence until a court of law proves guilt; that someone may at some time in the future commit a crime is not a valid reason to deny any right or privilege to a citizen or legal resident of the US.
If this fellow was institutionalized once before, as I've heard is true, then he shouldn't have been able to legally acquire those weapons in the first place. Either he bought them illegally or he somehow circumvented the system- which is the same thing, really. In other words, any argument for more gun control that rises from this is totally baseless, because lax enforcement of existing laws allowed him to get the weapons and not the lack of tougher laws.
I don't know what his status was as a resident, either- he was not born in the US- anyone know if he had legal resident status or just a student visa?
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You're joking, right? It's 2:35 on a Saturday.. I could head down to the sporting good store right now and be back with a new handgun in about 45 minutes...
All those ridiculous gun control laws expired years ago.. It's a one page application, a phone call to the FBI for a quick background check and you're on your way..
Because he was a resident alien, he may have had a 24 hour delay.. sometimes the FBI does that..
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| Re: Virginia Tech Massacre [message #255023 is a reply to message #254284] |
Sat, 21 April 2007 18:39 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
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No, I'm actually not joking. Maybe it's easier in some states, but the process to acquire a gun can be quite lengthy.
*edit: especially so in the more heavily populated states, which tend to have ludicrously restrictive gun control in addition to what the federal government requires. I'm from NJ, see- it was three months between when I applied for my purchaser's ID card and when I actually got the thing, and that's just because my family knows the local police. Only then could I go to a store and buy the weapon itself, and I needed several forms of ID for that in addition to the FFIDC and filling out the usual paperwork. That's for a long gun, mind you- handguns each require a separate permit (which, by the way, expires if you don't buy the gun within a certain period after issue) and a wait period. NJ also has a lovely little bit of red tape which prevents the dealer from directly contacting the FPI for the NICS; you pay $15 for the dealer to call the state police then they call the FBI.
Easy my ass. I'm gonna start the ball rolling on a handgun the day I turn 21- that's August 9th- and I'll bet it will be at least until November or December before I can go and buy it.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
[Updated on: Sat, 21 April 2007 18:48] Report message to a moderator |
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