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| Oh Hareman... [message #73235] |
Mon, 22 March 2004 07:07   |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
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General (1 Star) |
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| hareman |
OMFG Demo posted
and to Kirby dude taht is weak falling on Country and God
So snorting cocaine is ok?
Giving government contracts to political contributiors is ok.
Making war is ok?
Correct me if I am wrong here but did n;t Jesus say something about love thy neighbor: I do not really recall a passage about smart bombs.
OK on to finishing the war on terror. Terrorism is at an all time high for gthe year as far as incidents goes it is estimated taht recruits have increased to the various active organizartions some 300 % over a year ago. I got news for you Kirby we are in it for a long time coming.
Comparing the war on terror to Nazism and WWII is sort of week. that would be like saying the government new about Pearl Harbor and withheld that info ... OOPs they did.
Raveshaw said something in one of those old flame wars that struck me as particularly insightfull but as usual he was flamed down.
Just who appointed the US the police force for teh world? You know until we amde war on a nother counrty without provocation we hheld the moral high road. Now the truth comes out we relied on itnel from people who had axes to grind and from people who no direct knowledge of WMD or a direct link from Iraq to Al Quaida
SO we finace the war with Iran the Iraquis had, You do remember that right? So we created some of the very problems your boy is sovling and who did that a repooplican adn not content with that Ronny played both ends against the middle by suppying I-Hawk to the Irans and money.
And for the record you donlt seem to remeber me slamming on Clinton too. 'Shrub' left Texas in a shambles the US economy is in peril, jobs being sent over seas, reneging on treaty accords to benfit big business the creation of an all powerfull 'Big Brother'
What is going to take before you wake up and realize " where did the country I love go to?"
Oh and one more thing a duly elected official of a foriegh government did what he percieved was the right thing in pulling his troops out of Iraq. YOu would do well to remeber that is democracy in action
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I fail to see how serving God and Country is weak. I guess that if you no longer believe in either, it would be. I still believe in both.
You make several points based on what we have done in the past. Undoubtedly, our goverment is not innocent, and has indeed created some it's own mess.
So what do you recommend? Being held hostage to the whims of the U.N.? That worked out really well for weapons inspections, didn't it? Maybee we should have listened to Russia, France and Germany? Oh wait, they were supplying arms to the IRAQUIs too. Just like we did in the Iran-Iraq war.
The way I see it, we cleaned up the mess we created installing Saddaam. We cleaned up the unfinished work of the first Gulf war, and we prevented the potential transfer of chem / bio technology enmasse to terrorists from Iraquis that could no longer field massive WMD programs, but hated the U.S..
Afghanistan was another cleanup from our support of the mujaheddin against the Soviets in the seventies. The Taliban were a direct result of Cold war politics, and CIA covert Ops gone wrong.
Are we in this for the long run? You bet. Should we take a lead role? You bet. Should we expect our allies to back us up? You bet.
Democratic governments can be weak and pacifistic too. Spain's lack of a backbone, and unwillingness to defend the principles of freedom will have ramifications for years to come for them from the very people they are trying to pacify. Al Quiada doesn't care who is nice to them. Thier war is against the West.
And quoting Raveshaw will not make any points. He was / is a loony treehugger with no concept of reality, and real world relations. I never thought I would see the day YOU would be agreeing with, and defending his wild, and baseless arguments. The U.S. is the police force of the world because we are the last Superpower, and many organizations, and treaties are solely held together by the immensity of restrained U.S. firepower.
And no, Jesus does not advocate killing. I won't even touch that one. I was making reference to his moral charachter at home, and his acknowledgement of God publicly. His personal moral fibre was the issue at hand. As far as Cocaine use: How many dumb things have you done in your life that you no longer do now? Does smoking Pot when you were a teenager mean you are currently a Pot head? I think not.
Who these candidates are NOW, is what is at issue. How can they deal with what's going on NOW? As I have said before, 40 year old screwups hardly dictate moral charachter now. If they did, I would probably not be married right now........
You clearly have your mind set. That is just fine, and you are welcome to it. I just find it odd for someone in your critical position, at such a critical time in U.S. history to have such a left leaning mindset. Particularly after what I have observed over the last two years of posts and flame wars against the very people you are quoting now.
Very odd indeed.
We are agreed to disagree on this I am afraid.
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| Oh Hareman... [message #73254] |
Mon, 22 March 2004 11:04 |
hareman
Messages: 340
Registered: May 2003
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LMAO so I lean to left because I do not follow blindly? I am in the middle of teh road I make my own deicsions based upon what I see.
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| Oh Hareman... [message #73260] |
Mon, 22 March 2004 11:34 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
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General (1 Star) |
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| hareman |
LMAO so I lean to left because I do not follow blindly? I am in the middle of teh road I make my own deicsions based upon what I see.
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No, you lean to the left because you criticize blindly. How many critical remarks of the left have you made?
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[Updated on: Mon, 22 March 2004 11:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Oh Hareman... [message #73261] |
Mon, 22 March 2004 11:36 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
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General (5 Stars) |
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OK, i made it sound wrong. God does not promote war, but fighting a just war is not sinning. He doesn't want his children to die, but for the righetous to be victorious in the fight against tempation and sin.
Let's make this a little bit of a smaller picture, shall we. Say you're being attacked by someone, so your response is defense. Your defense might just be violence. Now that doesn't mean that God is promoting violence, but you are simply protecting your "temple." You are instructed to keep your body, your temple, healthy and etc... Same as in the war, we are protecting each other, so you could say that we're protecting everyone's "temple." We were attacked, so we are defending ourselves from future attacks.
If that's so, why don't we just attack the terrorist groups who are attacking us instead of political leaders? Easy, It's like a drug ring, if you take out the dealers, the drug lords are just going to hire more. Instead of having to arrest dealer after dealer, which will make no progress in your fight against drugs, you go straight for the drug lords themselves. You attack the ones who are fueling everything along with the dealers as well.
whoa.
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| Oh Hareman... [message #73262] |
Mon, 22 March 2004 11:40 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
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General (1 Star) |
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| da_shiz |
OK, i made it sound wrong. God does not promote war, but fighting a just war is not sinning. He doesn't want his children to die, but for the righetous to be victorious in the fight against tempation and sin.
Let's make this a little bit of a smaller picture, shall we. Say you're being attacked by someone, so your response is defense. Your defense might just be violence. Now that doesn't mean that God is promoting violence, but you are simply protecting your "temple." You are instructed to keep your body, your temple, healthy and etc... Same as in the war, we are protecting each other, so you could say that we're protecting everyone's "temple." We were attacked, so we are defending ourselves from future attacks.
If that's so, why don't we just attack the terrorist groups who are attacking us instead of political leaders? Easy, It's like a drug ring, if you take out the dealers, the drug lords are just going to hire more. Instead of having to arrest dealer after dealer, which will make no progress in your fight against drugs, you go straight for the drug lords themselves. You attack the ones who are fueling everything along with the dealers as well.
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This is rationalization.
Thou shalt not kill.
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| Oh Hareman... [message #73264] |
Mon, 22 March 2004 11:48 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
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General (1 Star) |
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| da_shiz |
But in defense, if it is a necessary force, it's not a sin. Thou Shalt Not Steal, but yet intelligence steals secrets and other info from other countries.
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Does that make it right just because it happens all the time?
I don't know why God directed the Isrealites to destroy on occasion. But in each case he directed them to do it for whatever his reason was. That does not mean there's a get out of jail free card to start wars. The crusaders got this wrong too.
God's laws are immutable. Only he can bypass them. After all, he created them.
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| Oh Hareman... [message #73300] |
Mon, 22 March 2004 16:03 |
hareman
Messages: 340
Registered: May 2003
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Your memory is sort of selective there Kirby; (lol) based on did I criticise the 'left'. By that comment do you mean democrats? hmmmm how many times did I crush on Clinton? Oh well.
AS far as the bible goes Jesus said the old laws and ways are done God says love thy neighbor
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| Oh Hareman... [message #73409] |
Tue, 23 March 2004 10:29 |
hareman
Messages: 340
Registered: May 2003
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A DD214 is your seperation paper according to various websites (there is another thread on that and I am sort of skeptical on that issue) No one has produced one no FOIA request has located one either. I am not saying a I disbelieve or believe it at this point but it I think it raises serious questions about 'Shrub'. Some of these questions are similar to those raised on Clinton's going to Oxford to evade the draft.
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| Oh Hareman... [message #73414] |
Tue, 23 March 2004 11:31 |
hareman
Messages: 340
Registered: May 2003
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<sigh>
OK pete you asked for this (bear in mind I support neither party and am an independant taht means I vote for whoever will do the best job not their party affiliation)
.... clears throat ....
hmmmmm
WATERGATE the largest consporacy involving the Presidency
Roll Call
Richard Milhouse Nixon (accused of ordeing the whole dirty tricks campaign and the resulting coverup and a man I admire deeply for his foreign policy) resigned and was pardoned before he could tried and convicted. An action I agree with to this day it saved the office of the presidancy until later senile chimp loving bozos and men who can't keep it their pants would undermine the position.
John Mitchell the fucking attorney general He stood trial in 1974 and was convicted on charges of conspiracy, perjury and obstruction of justice. He served 19 months in a minimum-security prison in Alabama before being released on parole for medical reasons.
John Dean
John Dean White House fucking counsel was charged with obstruction of justice and spent four months in prison for his role in the Watergate cover-up.
John Ehrlichman President Nixon's assistant for domestic affairs, John D. Ehrlichman, directed the White House "plumbers" unit. He also approved the break-in at the office of the psychiatrist of Daniel Ellsberg, the defense analyst who leaked the Pentagon Papers to the press. Ehrlichman resigned from his White House post in 1973; he was convicted of conspiracy to obstruct justice and perjury in the Watergate case and of conspiracy in the Ellsberg case. Ehrlichman served 18 months in prison after unsuccessfully trying to negotiate a sentence under which he would provide legal service to Native Americans.
H.R. "Bob" Haldeman, Nixon's chief of staff, spent 18 months in prison for his role in Watergate. A former advertising executive, Haldeman had a stern reputation as Nixon's gatekeeper and once called himself "the president's son-of-a-bitch." The chief of staff was part of the conversation on the so-called "smoking gun" tape, in which Nixon discussed using the CIA to divert the FBI's Watergate probe. Haldeman resigned in April 1973 and was convicted of conspiracy and obstruction of justice the following year.
Jeb Magruder Nixon's deputy campaign director, Jeb Stuart Magruder was charged with perjury and conspiracy to obstruct justice for his role in the Watergate cover-up. He spent seven months in prison
Charles Colson
Known within the Nixon administration as the "evil genius," special counsel Charles W. Colson served seven months in prison in 1974 after pleading guilty to obstruction of justice in the Watergate-related Daniel Ellsberg case. Colson's more notorious ideas, according to some reports, included spreading false information about Ellsberg and firebombing the Brookings Institution. He was also indicted for his role in the Watergate cover-up.
And my HERO (all sarcasm aside I deeply respect this man for his views and his determination)
G. Gordon Liddy was convicted for his role in the Watergate break-in, for conspiracy in the Daniel Ellsberg case and for contempt of court, spending about four and a half years in prison. In 1986, a federal appeals court found Liddy liable for $20,499 in back taxes on Watergate slush-fund money, rejecting his claim that his benefits did not exceed $45,000. As one of the White House "plumbers," Liddy spent about $300,000 engineering political dirty tricks and the Watergate break-in.
SO don;t get overighteous with me and the republican party. Both have enough shame in their and present to warrant an entirely new system of government.
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| Oh Hareman... [message #73418] |
Tue, 23 March 2004 12:03 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
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General (1 Star) |
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What the issue is , is not partisan party politics though. It's integrity. Bush has guts, vision, and follow through despite a very difficult, and uphill battle.
Rather than the pacification of prior offices both Republican and Democrat, we see a man who is tired of America being attacked, and is bringing the fight to the scumbags at thier own doorstep.
Yes, it has raised anger, recruitment, and fueled terrorism, but if they are on the run in fear of thier life, they cannot mount effective attacks like they have. The time is now to confront this global war that no one wanted, but everyone now has.
Crush them now, before they kill our children. Whatever the costs.
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| Oh Hareman... [message #73560] |
Wed, 24 March 2004 09:59 |
hareman
Messages: 340
Registered: May 2003
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LMAO eATMe Java
When I get back from Quantico its UT2k4 and FUD 0WNAGE time so you better have the full version
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| Oh Hareman... [message #73745] |
Thu, 25 March 2004 09:10 |
hareman
Messages: 340
Registered: May 2003
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Yep I have stayed there in my travels. Was there during the DC snipage event for a day.
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