| If you're going to play with Aircraftkiller.. [message #58775] |
Mon, 22 December 2003 09:24   |
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Crimson
Messages: 7428
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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| msgtpain |
| Crimson |
This thread started off as a flame and didn't get any better. Same old argument, different day.
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Hmm... I could be wrong, but I don't recall ever having this argument in public before..
oh well.. Some things never do change, we know that for sure.
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Maybe not your part of it, but everyone else chimed in with the same old arguments. I remind you that I agreed with your inital observations.
I'm the bawss.
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| If you're going to play with Aircraftkiller.. [message #58780] |
Mon, 22 December 2003 10:42 |
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htmlgod
Messages: 360
Registered: July 2003
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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First let me say my defense of ACK:
He knows the game better than pretty much anyone alive, he knows every option and glitch that can be exploited, simply because he's played and modified the game more than anyone else around. If there is some new cheat going around, he would probably be the first to realize it, because he knows everything that is even remotely possible in multiplayer online.
On the other hand, in terms of "flicker cheats," ACK should know, if anyone, that character physics are all controlled server side, meaining that they're impossible to modify in a multiplayer game unless you are the host (in which case every player has the modified capabilities, such as "warping").
Unless there is correlated data of specific players always "warping" in a fashion similar to the effect created by low KBPS, there is no reason for suspicion, in my opinion, because that kind of crap goes on all the time. Its called LAG. And even if specific players do "warp" consistently, that could just as easily be due to a crap connection, which is no fair reason to ban them from severs.
Playing the devils advocate, assuming there was some way to modify player physics to make the person "teleport" or "warp," player physics are still controlled server side, so it would be useless. And even if they weren't, or if the "command" you mentioned was being used, how far are we assuming people will go to snipe well?
So there's my line. ACK was wrong, and has been wrong before, but still knows more than just about anyone in terms of what is possible, and should probably continue to be a moderator, for that reason.
Check out http://newhope.conquergaming.com to see the progress of the STARWARS mod for Renegade.
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| If you're going to play with Aircraftkiller.. [message #58782] |
Mon, 22 December 2003 11:01 |
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nastym4n
Messages: 144
Registered: October 2003
Location: UK
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| htmlgod |
Unless there is correlated data of specific players always "warping" in a fashion similar to the effect created by low KBPS, there is no reason for suspicion, in my opinion, because that kind of crap goes on all the time. Its called LAG. And even if specific players do "warp" consistently, that could just as easily be due to a crap connection, which is no fair reason to ban them from severs.
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kbps alteration is a cheap trick. If you deliberately lower your own, you will gain an advantage. A crap connection is a fair reason to ban anyone if they affect the game for 50 other people.
a prime example would be the 60 player game on Fastc0nn1. They now boot people with kbps below 100 (i thinks its 100 anyway). I was at a freinds house watching him play Ren on the server the other day. After kicking approx. 10 - 12 people for kbps WAAY to low, the following results were seen:
SFPS trebled
PING stopped boucing and leveled out at an acceptable level.
FPS got slightly better
KBPS stopped bouncing and leveled out.
seriously, this guy was trying to snipe. he hit about 3 people. Immediately after the removal of those who had low kbps he started hitting about 1 a minute.
Kick them. It IS a known hack, and anyone CAN DO IT DELIBERATLY, it doesnt take a genius.
http://www.generalsmaps.net/8p_generals.php
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| If you're going to play with Aircraftkiller.. [message #58790] |
Mon, 22 December 2003 12:30 |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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I was the one in the irc log asking Ak how he was sure these people were cheating..
But other than that I think y'all should be listenin to foo fighters songs instead of contributing to 5 page bitch fests.. :^)
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| same old forums, same old bitching... [message #58797] |
Mon, 22 December 2003 13:14 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Nice to see that everything has changed SO much in the 10 months since I stopped posting... :rolleyes:
This has happened before. It's nothing new; I can remember at least one other ACK bitch-a-thon topic like this on the OLD Renegade forums(remember? Westwood? BEFORE EA swallowed it whole?)...the end result was that half the people who were arguing got banned, some permanently. By the time that happened, the topic was several pages long, and had degenerated into one big overglorified flame war. Sound familiar?
Had I never seen this happen before, I'd probably agree with the topic author, but since this is a recurring theme which has always ended in the original posters resorting to senseless flames, I must side with ACK on this one.
Sure, he may be an asshole- but he's an asshole that's usually right.
I've seen the same sort of mysterious warping behavior while playing, and having had a bad connection at one point myself, I can state with absolute certainty that there is no way people can warp all over the place and get as high of scores as they do with lag. I'm assuming this isn't the regular button mashing jump around trick people use with infantry, but the hardcore WARPING that happens when someone lags(or when you lag, and see someone else warp because of it). You can't get super-dee-duper uber scores if you're lagging badly enough to warp around, so it has to be someone causing everyone else to lag while they remain in full control. Because that gives them an unfair advantage, it can be considered cheating, and an administrator/moderator is fully within their rights to kick that person.
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| Re: same old forums, same old bitching... [message #58807] |
Mon, 22 December 2003 13:54 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| NukeIt15 |
Nice to see that everything has changed SO much in the 10 months since I stopped posting... :rolleyes:
-=OneBigSnip=-
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I don't typically resort to flames, and if for some reason I do, they are never senseless. But it's good to know that you can come back 10 months later and be just as smart as you were when you left.
Anyway..
The majority of the posters in this thread did indeed just jump on the 'flame ack' bandwagon, which is sad in a way, because instead of helping him see the original point of the thread, it just makes him more pissed off about it all.
So I'll restate:
a) No one likes being accused of "cheating" (I think this sort of proves that)
b) Even if there 'was' a warp hack, there is absolutely no legitimate way of isolating those people from the ones that just have a shitty connection. If the server agrees that they don't care, and people with shitty connections should play somewhere else, so be it. But kicking someone because you can't hit them is dumb.
c) The anonymous person that was kicked, who Ack actually knows quite well under his "real name" was just a perfect example of how someone can definitely not be cheating, but an overzealous moderator that has a hair up their ass can find a reason to remove anyone that they simply don't feel like playing against.
d) Having said that, it just bugged the hell out of me that someone would be so pissed about being "accused" of cheating that they would go to great lengths to prove their innocence and be truly offended that someone would accuse them.. would just turn around and ban the first person they saw that wiggled too much.
I was HOPING that the people in question, would just have a better understanding (or perspective) of the situations from the accused cheaters perspective.
I'm the last person that gives a cheater the time of day, when they drain my health and kill my havoc with a minigunner under a second; or the players that kill 10-15 people in the tunnels leaving them all to say "WTF" as they respawn; or even the ones that have continual score jumps of 500+ points when I go back and review the logs..
But come on.. kicking everyone because they 'flicker'? That accusation is just a little too self serving in my opinion.
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| If you're going to play with Aircraftkiller.. [message #58833] |
Mon, 22 December 2003 16:11 |
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U927
Messages: 709
Registered: February 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Jelly |
SHUT THE FUCK UP ACK. Edited for perfection.
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Here's a little something for you. Why don't YOU shut the fuck up?
All you have done here is flame ACK consistently because you had an argument with him. You leave useless comments behind and do nothing but waste space.
GET OVER YOURSELF. You are proving nothing by replying in a manner to show your disapproval of ACK. You are simply aggravating those who want to read this to see this resolved. You simply jumped on the "OMG LEIK I H8 ACK!!!111" bandwagon, which is useless since ACK isn't going to go crying home to mommy because a few people hate him.
Next time, post something relevant to the topic at hand, mmkay?
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle
8-Bit Theatre. The power of evil compels you!
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| If you're going to play with Aircraftkiller.. [message #58838] |
Mon, 22 December 2003 16:20 |
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U927
Messages: 709
Registered: February 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Wrong again.
ACK is my friend, but I am not posting this in his defense. I'm tired of people who do nothing but shovel ad hominem over and over again, and call it an argument. You are one of those people, who think their opinion will influence people to join them.
I'm not going to waste any more of my time reponding to you, as it is futile to get my message across that empty head of yours.
ONLY POST IF IT IS RELEVANT TO THE TOPIC FFS!
EDIT: This was directed to Jelly.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle
8-Bit Theatre. The power of evil compels you!
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| If you're going to play with Aircraftkiller.. [message #58844] |
Mon, 22 December 2003 16:31 |
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rm5248
Messages: 1156
Registered: November 2003
Location: USA
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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SHUT UP DAMMIT! HAVE YOU NO RESPECT FOR THE HOLIDAYS? IN WWI BRITISH AND GERMAN TROOPS CELEBRATED CHRISTMAS WITH EACH OTHER IN NO MANS LAND! WHY CANT YOU GUYS DO THAT?!?!?!
w00t?
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| If you're going to play with Aircraftkiller.. [message #58863] |
Mon, 22 December 2003 20:45 |
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DragonFg
Messages: 187
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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ACK why do you always try to sound so sophisticated? You never argue back directly, you seem to either call someone a name or just talk down whatever they've said (sounds like a Democrat to me).
But anyway in your defense I would probably kick out someone who flickers around to wildly to hit cus it would give them an unfair advantage and also just piss me off really bad. I wouldn't ban them though.
"Behind every great man is a woman, and behind her is his wife."
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