Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :(
( ) 2 Votes
| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414497 is a reply to message #414496] |
Sat, 19 December 2009 01:57   |
Tunaman
Messages: 1189
Registered: January 2005
Karma: 2
|
General (1 Star) |
|
|
| Goztow wrote on Sat, 19 December 2009 03:39 |
If you play as a team, it doesn't matter WHO in your team gets the points on kill as long as the total amount is correct. If you play individually, then your remark about how the kill points are rewarded would be significant. But guess what: Renegade is supposed to be all about teamplay.
|
Actually its pretty important since it determines at what speed your team can acquire vehicles/infantry. As long as donate is not turned on at least. 
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414498 is a reply to message #413512] |
Sat, 19 December 2009 02:08 |
 |
Crimson
Messages: 7428
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
|
General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
|
|
Getting the kill is important, because if you damage a Havoc to 1 HP, he can go back and heal. If you kill him, he's well, dead. Finishing the job is important. It's the same as disarming a beacon. If the beacon has 1% health left, your building is fucked. You have to finish. the. job.
I'm the bawss.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414501 is a reply to message #414498] |
Sat, 19 December 2009 04:21 |
 |
Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
|
|
this is a common point brought up in these debates. oddly enough, i always find that the people who think you should get more points for damaging a tank and less points for finishing it off... tend to be the same people who think you should get less points for pummelling a building and more points for finishing it off.
it's not the only paradox you see from these people. the other famous one is people who oppose the pointsfix because they don't want to see someone who's been hammering the fuck out of an enemy base with a powerful tank, the enemy unable to stop him, get a high score... so let's implement a bug that lets you get points for no reason at all instead, that'll solve the problem!
you couldn't make this stuff up if you tried tbh
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414513 is a reply to message #413512] |
Sat, 19 December 2009 10:09 |
ELiT3FLyR
Messages: 119
Registered: April 2008
Karma: 0
|
Recruit |
|
|
| Quote: |
I also addressed the part about infantry versus tanks...
|
and thats where ur lack of understanding shines at its brightest. ignore the fact that the pointsystem doesnt make sense for a second, and think of it in terms of gameplay and balence, espeically for clanwars which are usually 4v4 or less.
you already say tanks are much stronger, so does it make any sense that you should get more points for killing infantry than tanks? especially when
a) tanks have more health
b) tanks have unlimited ammo
c) tanks can be repaired anywhere
d) tanks cant be squished
e) tanks are cheaper in most cases
to make up the points for 1 PIC dying, gdi has to kill 2 nod apcs. those are the kind of ratio's that only make sense to either retards, people who really dont understand the game or people who have let themselves be brain washed by spoonys essays. you want to play a game where infantry is useless? go play battlefield or something.
but hey i dont even know how i got dragged into this shit again, nothing is going to change no matter how many people want it to because spoony has managed to convince himself that the reason clanwars was successful last month was because of pointfix, rather than the fact that actually people just wanted to play competitive again.
[Updated on: Sat, 19 December 2009 10:11] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414516 is a reply to message #414513] |
Sat, 19 December 2009 10:21 |
 |
ChewML
Messages: 918
Registered: June 2008
Karma: 0
|
Colonel |
|
|
| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Sat, 19 December 2009 11:09 |
| Quote: |
I also addressed the part about infantry versus tanks...
|
and thats where ur lack of understanding shines at its brightest. ignore the fact that the pointsystem doesnt make sense for a second, and think of it in terms of gameplay and balence, espeically for clanwars which are usually 4v4 or less.
you already say tanks are much stronger, so does it make any sense that you should get more points for killing infantry than tanks? especially when
a) tanks have more health
b) tanks have unlimited ammo
c) tanks can be repaired anywhere
d) tanks cant be squished
e) tanks are cheaper in most cases
to make up the points for 1 PIC dying, gdi has to kill 2 nod apcs. those are the kind of ratio's that only make sense to either retards, people who really dont understand the game or people who have let themselves be brain washed by spoonys essays. you want to play a game where infantry is useless? go play battlefield or something.
but hey i dont even know how i got dragged into this shit again, nothing is going to change no matter how many people want it to because spoony has managed to convince himself that the reason clanwars was successful last month was because of pointfix, rather than the fact that actually people just wanted to play competitive again.
|
1 PIC = 1,000 credits
2 Nod APCS = 2 x 500 = 1,000 credits
What the fuck doesn't make sense about that?
Infantry are not useless, but tanks are definetly more valuable... for some of the reasons you already stated.
Point being... BUY A FUCKING TANK. Don't just sit there and be like, "wtf?!?!?! I have been sniping this harv all round, how come we not winning?"
Units are priced on what they are worth. So you should get points for killing them based on what you have cost the other team. DUH... is that so fucking hard to understand?
Really someone else please come explain why the pointfix is a bad thing, because this fucking idiot is failing completely.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414518 is a reply to message #413512] |
Sat, 19 December 2009 10:29 |
|
|
And, and whilst the anti-pointsfix side are making their case, please note this, a FACT that has never ever been addressed:
| StealthEye of BlankIntel (Emphasis Added) |
t definitely is a bug, notice how it behaves differently on health than on armor as well. (You don't get many points for shooting health with those weapons). The bug affects all damage on armor with a warhead multiplier of != 1, because it is the warhead multiplier that is missing.
Actually, it calculates points like this:
vehicledamagemultiplier * rawdamage * warheadmultiplier / warheadmultiplier
It should be:
vehicledamagemultiplier * rawdamage * warheadmultiplier
Because the warheadmultiplier is low for ramjets, and rawdamage (see the tables on http://www.blackintel.org/?page=projects/biatch/weaponinfo) is high, the effect of the missing multiplier is highest. Repair guns have a warheadmultiplier of 1, so those are not affected. C4 2 -> will do half of the points it should do. All other weapons are <1, therefore all those will give more points than they were supposed to. Because the multipliers are closer to 1 it will be less visible though.
With the bug fixed, you always get half of the points for repairing than for damaging a vehicle, and you always (regardless of the weapon you used) get the same amount for damaging or killing a vehicle (assuming it was not repaired ofcourse).
Without the bugfix, it mostly depends on the weapon you use to damage something with. More than it matters which thing you are damaging or the amount of damage you actually do.
|
. That is from This topic, announcing the point fix's release.
For those of you less confident at maths: The first formula (The buggy code that is in Renegade normally) can be simplified to "vehicledamagemultiplier * rawdamage" as the last two terms cancel each other out (A/A = 1. X * 1 = X) and how this then affects points is clearly explained. (Also note that some of these multipliers are actually fractional, eg: 1/2 and thus make things smaller).
I strongly suggest you read that entire topic (The so called "Long Version" is best). It's most definately a bug, shall I tell you why? There's no point in putting "A/A" in to any formula in a program, because it will ALWAYS cancel out and thus waste the FPU's time, that is, it is inefficient and slow when the program is run. Thus it MUST be a mistake, and therefore a bug. (Unless A is 0, in which case it will crash!  )
Renguard is a wonderful initiative
Toggle Spoiler
| BBC news, quoting... |
Supporters of Proposition 8 will argue California does not discriminate against gays, as the current law allows them to get married - as long as they wed a partner of the opposite sex.
|
| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
|
the hell is that?
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414520 is a reply to message #414513] |
Sat, 19 December 2009 10:34 |
 |
EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
|
General (3 Stars) |
|
|
| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Sat, 19 December 2009 18:09 |
| Quote: |
I also addressed the part about infantry versus tanks...
|
and thats where ur lack of understanding shines at its brightest. ignore the fact that the pointsystem doesnt make sense for a second, and think of it in terms of gameplay and balence, espeically for clanwars which are usually 4v4 or less.
you already say tanks are much stronger, so does it make any sense that you should get more points for killing infantry than tanks? especially when
a) tanks have more health
b) tanks have unlimited ammo
c) tanks can be repaired anywhere
d) tanks cant be squished
e) tanks are cheaper in most cases
to make up the points for 1 PIC dying, gdi has to kill 2 nod apcs. those are the kind of ratio's that only make sense to either retards, people who really dont understand the game or people who have let themselves be brain washed by spoonys essays. you want to play a game where infantry is useless? go play battlefield or something.
but hey i dont even know how i got dragged into this shit again, nothing is going to change no matter how many people want it to because spoony has managed to convince himself that the reason clanwars was successful last month was because of pointfix, rather than the fact that actually people just wanted to play competitive again.
|
You might've had a point when you would be complaining about the money they cots (aka an APC should cost more) but now you're again just using bullshit arguments again.
Btw, you know that you actually get bugged points from a PIC as well? When you damage armour, I mean. When you're shooting into the health the points are fixed.
Basically, if you would just shoot alot at a PIC that is being repaired without killing it, you'll get just as much points for a vehicle as for a PIC. You just shouldn't kill it, nor damage it's health.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414521 is a reply to message #413512] |
Sat, 19 December 2009 10:58 |
ELiT3FLyR
Messages: 119
Registered: April 2008
Karma: 0
|
Recruit |
|
|
| Quote: |
1 PIC = 1,000 credits
2 Nod APCS = 2 x 500 = 1,000 credits
What the fuck doesn't make sense about that?
|
fuck man ur so stupid, i said look at it from gameplay and balence not fucking maths and logic. you really have been playing close attention to spoonys argument style havent u.
tell me why u should get the same points for killing a PIC than 2 apcs, and you answer well um 500 x 2 is 1000! jesus man the fact that the top 3 communities in terms of skill all hate pointfix should surely give u a hint that what im saying is true.
and u obviously have a vendetta against havocs that snipe the harvy because they make more of an impact then u do on a game. get over it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414523 is a reply to message #414521] |
Sat, 19 December 2009 11:14 |
|
ChewML
Messages: 918
Registered: June 2008
Karma: 0
|
Colonel |
|
|
| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Sat, 19 December 2009 11:58 |
| Quote: |
1 PIC = 1,000 credits
2 Nod APCS = 2 x 500 = 1,000 credits
What the fuck doesn't make sense about that?
|
fuck man ur so stupid, i said look at it from gameplay and balence not fucking maths and logic. you really have been playing close attention to spoonys argument style havent u.
tell me why u should get the same points for killing a PIC than 2 apcs, and you answer well um 500 x 2 is 1000! jesus man the fact that the top 3 communities in terms of skill all hate pointfix should surely give u a hint that what im saying is true.
and u obviously have a vendetta against havocs that snipe the harvy because they make more of an impact then u do on a game. get over it.
|
The 2 APCs cost 1,000... The PIC cost 1,000... Why shouldn't that give the same amout of points? It cost the opposing team the same? Can you answer this, I bet not...
How does it help balance the game? If you are getting your ass kicked by tanks, you should learn how to use a tank to fight back, or accept defeat and quit playing Renegade. How can such a moron like you play in CW? You call me stupid, because I use logic? Congrats, every post in this thread that make arguing against pointfix just makes you look more and more mentally handicapped.
TBH, I have no idea why the "top 3" communities don't use pointfix... That makes no sense to me. So, NO, it does not make me think what you are saying is true.
Yes, I have a huge problem with assholes who snipe harvs all game, AS THAT IS THE DUMBEST THING I HAVE EVER FUCKING HEARD OF IN RENEGADE.
Using logic (which may be hard fro you as you seem to have no sense of it), explain to me how the fuck it makes sense that you should get a lot of points doing very little damage.
Untill you can do this, your argument is invalid and a waste of my time to read.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414524 is a reply to message #414513] |
Sat, 19 December 2009 11:22 |
|
Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
|
|
| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Sat, 19 December 2009 11:09 |
and thats where ur lack of understanding shines at its brightest. ignore the fact that the pointsystem doesnt make sense for a second
|
not the entire points system... just weapons vs green-health tanks. everything else does make sense (apart from the nod rocket soldier)
| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Sat, 19 December 2009 11:09 |
you already say tanks are much stronger, so does it make any sense that you should get more points for killing infantry than tanks? especially when
a) tanks have more health
b) tanks have unlimited ammo
c) tanks can be repaired anywhere
d) tanks cant be squished
e) tanks are cheaper in most cases
to make up the points for 1 PIC dying, gdi has to kill 2 nod apcs. those are the kind of ratio's that only make sense to either retards, people who really dont understand the game or people who have let themselves be brain washed by spoonys essays. you want to play a game where infantry is useless? go play battlefield or something.
|
so why aren't you absolutely outraged at the fact that the two apcs cost the same as the one PIC? the points gained for killing the units are entirely determined by the unit's cost.
if you wanna say infantry ought to be cheaper, go ahead. let's have that debate. you might spark a worthwhile topic there, which would make a change. but it's absurd to say that the solution to that problem - if it's really a problem, which is debatable - is to let people get points for absolutely reason.
as for "brainwashed by spoony's essays", do yourself a favour, don't embarrass yourself. every time someone happens to agree with me they get insulted for doing so... it's absolutely pathetic. i could go further and say that everything i've said in these debates has been honest, whereas you've been caught lying to the community again and again and again and again to try to get the result you want.
| Quote: |
but hey i dont even know how i got dragged into this shit again, nothing is going to change no matter how many people want it to because spoony has managed to convince himself that the reason clanwars was successful last month was because of pointfix, rather than the fact that actually people just wanted to play competitive again.
|
actually, i said no such thing. i didn't say the pointsfix was why clanwars was so successful last month. there were lots of reasons for that and i wouldn't put the pointsfix top of the list. however, the pointsfix and the other fixes like no harvblock is why clanwars was, for the first time ever, balanced between nod on gdi on maps like field, and fair to the extent that every game is won by the team that deserved it, which wasn't the case before. i keep saying this and you're obviously unmoved by it, which subtracts a great deal of credibility from your claims to give a shit about the game's balance. furthermore, hate said: if you put the pointsfix on clanwars everyone will leave. well, he's very narrow-sighted there - no mention of fairness, balance etc, just talking about activity in isolation, but even on that one point he was way off the mark.
but back to your statement. "nothing is going to change no matter..." what is it you think ought to change here? the pointsfix is going to be entirely optional for each community. don't you want that? if so, then you ought to be ok with me saying: yes, we'll use it in clanwars. you're entirely free to host or buy your own clan ladder and run it with your point mod that lets you get points for absolutely no reason... good luck to you, though i won't play there. you even had my league available to you for the last year without the corrupt spoony ruining things for you, doesn't look like you made much use of it... you preferred to play in tempozia's server against loki.
| Quote: |
tell me why u should get the same points for killing a PIC than 2 apcs, and you answer well um 500 x 2 is 1000!
|
it's a good answer. if you don't think a pic is "worth" two apcs, you would have been arguing for a long time now that apcs are too cheap or PICs are too expensive, or both. like i said before, that is perhaps a debate worth having.
| Quote: |
and u obviously have a vendetta against havocs that snipe the harvy because they make more of an impact then u do on a game. get over it.
|
i object to havocs getting huge amounts of points by achieving absolutely nothing too... does the same apply to me?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Sat, 19 December 2009 11:26] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414534 is a reply to message #414501] |
Sat, 19 December 2009 13:39 |
|
Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
|
|
| Spoony wrote on Sat, 19 December 2009 03:21 |
this is a common point brought up in these debates. oddly enough, i always find that the people who think you should get more points for damaging a tank and less points for finishing it off... tend to be the same people who think you should get less points for pummelling a building and more points for finishing it off.
it's not the only paradox you see from these people. the other famous one is people who oppose the pointsfix because they don't want to see someone who's been hammering the fuck out of an enemy base with a powerful tank, the enemy unable to stop him, get a high score... so let's implement a bug that lets you get points for no reason at all instead, that'll solve the problem!
you couldn't make this stuff up if you tried tbh
|
if anybody wants another...
"this game is about killing buildings, not pointwhoring. so when i lose my ref i should still be able to afford whatever i want, and when i lose my wf it should not present me with any problems winning the game from then on"
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414536 is a reply to message #414521] |
Sat, 19 December 2009 14:37 |
|
|
| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Sat, 19 December 2009 17:58 |
| Quote: |
1 PIC = 1,000 credits
2 Nod APCS = 2 x 500 = 1,000 credits
What the fuck doesn't make sense about that?
|
fuck man ur so stupid, i said look at it from gameplay and balence not fucking maths and logic. you really have been playing close attention to spoonys argument style havent u.
tell me why u should get the same points for killing a PIC than 2 apcs, and you answer well um 500 x 2 is 1000! jesus man the fact that the top 3 communities in terms of skill all hate pointfix should surely give u a hint that what im saying is true.
and u obviously have a vendetta against havocs that snipe the harvy because they make more of an impact then u do on a game. get over it.
|
REPLY TO MY POST.
Renguard is a wonderful initiative
Toggle Spoiler
| BBC news, quoting... |
Supporters of Proposition 8 will argue California does not discriminate against gays, as the current law allows them to get married - as long as they wed a partner of the opposite sex.
|
| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
|
the hell is that?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414541 is a reply to message #414538] |
Sat, 19 December 2009 14:41 |
|
|
| Chew wrote on Sat, 19 December 2009 21:39 |
| CarrierII wrote on Sat, 19 December 2009 21:37 |
| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Sat, 19 December 2009 17:58 |
| Quote: |
1 PIC = 1,000 credits
2 Nod APCS = 2 x 500 = 1,000 credits
What the fuck doesn't make sense about that?
|
fuck man ur so stupid, i said look at it from gameplay and balence not fucking maths and logic. you really have been playing close attention to spoonys argument style havent u.
tell me why u should get the same points for killing a PIC than 2 apcs, and you answer well um 500 x 2 is 1000! jesus man the fact that the top 3 communities in terms of skill all hate pointfix should surely give u a hint that what im saying is true.
and u obviously have a vendetta against havocs that snipe the harvy because they make more of an impact then u do on a game. get over it.
|
REPLY TO MY POST.
|
IT DOESN'T MATTER CARRIER, COZ YOUR POST CONTAINS LOGIC AND SMART STUFF.
|
SORRY. I'LL REMOVE THE MATHS AND PUT IN SOME PRETTY PICTURES OF CATS. (Yes, I'm endorsing stupidity, it's a temporary measure)
Renguard is a wonderful initiative
Toggle Spoiler
| BBC news, quoting... |
Supporters of Proposition 8 will argue California does not discriminate against gays, as the current law allows them to get married - as long as they wed a partner of the opposite sex.
|
| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
|
the hell is that?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414594 is a reply to message #414585] |
Sat, 19 December 2009 22:11 |
|
Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
|
|
| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Sat, 19 December 2009 21:01 |
yes thats right, try and point me in the way of arguing against the maths, its all u have going for the pro pointfix argument because it sure as hell doesnt make the game more fun or balenced
|
you managed to go almost a month without completely humiliating yourself in these debates simpee, it's a shame you fell back into old habits.
all these other people in these threads in favour of the pointsfix, the "public-server n00bs" you love to condescend to because you think they all suck except me - well kiddo, they're right and you're wrong. anyone reading this thread can see you getting proven wrong again and again and again - just like every other pointsfix debate there's ever been - they can also see you desperately dodging everything you can't refute (which is a great deal). you've also just been caught lying to the community YET AGAIN, in spite of the enormous damage you've done to your own credibility by getting caught doing so innumerable times in the past. i have no idea why you can't see how much weaker you're making your side look by carrying on like this. i've certainly tried to point it out to you twenty or thirty times, for your own good.
doesn't make the game more balanced? once again, i'll just repeat the fact that since i set the original points and economy system up at clanwars, and disallowed harv block (i.e. start of november), every clan game has been won by the team that deserved to win it. this was definitely not true before. you can't refute that, and yet you're obviously totally unmoved by it, which is why nobody can take you seriously when you pretend you care about the game being balanced or not. it's like that thread on clanwars the other day about you being suspended a few years back, supposedly an outrage - but the fact you were completely indifferent to me being suspended proves beyond all doubt that you don't give a shit about fairness, honesty etc etc etc and it's sad to see you pretend you do.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plaid guilty :( [message #414650 is a reply to message #414649] |
Sun, 20 December 2009 05:32 |
|
Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
|
|
by all means link me, if this person has behaved anywhere near as pathetically as simpee then i'd like to see it, but the only person who's done that in the pointsfix debate is probably clearshot.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
|
|
|
|
| Pages (11): [ 5 ] |
  |
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Sat Jun 01 07:50:23 MST 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.02064 seconds
|
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
