| Pointsfix debate - cleared - I plead guilty :( [message #413512] |
Tue, 08 December 2009 13:47  |
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Goztow
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Goztoe |
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| cmatt42 wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 19:17 |
| Goztow wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 01:26 |
For Renegade of course.
I'm fully aware that TT shouldn't include balance changes, but the keyword here is should. I want to be damn sure it doesn't before it's pushed. The fact if something is a bug or a balance issue can be different in the eye of the beholder, as was shown in the past.
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I think this is the most nonsensical post I've ever seen you write.
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OK, one word: POINTSFIX.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Mon, 21 December 2009 00:29] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: beta test TT patch [message #413567 is a reply to message #413512] |
Wed, 09 December 2009 00:16  |
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cmatt42
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| Goztow wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 14:47 |
OK, one word: POINTSFIX.
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The points issue is something that's been fixed a long time ago without the hands of APB or Reborn testers. As far as scripts 4.0 go, we're just testing the functionality to make sure everything works. Anything relating to Renegade's balance is, quite frankly, out of our scope.
GunKataGaming.net
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| Re: beta test TT patch [message #413576 is a reply to message #413567] |
Wed, 09 December 2009 02:21 |
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Goztow
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Goztoe |
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| cmatt42 wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 08:16 |
| Goztow wrote on Tue, 08 December 2009 14:47 |
OK, one word: POINTSFIX.
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The points issue is something that's been fixed a long time ago without the hands of APB or Reborn testers. As far as scripts 4.0 go, we're just testing the functionality to make sure everything works. Anything relating to Renegade's balance is, quite frankly, out of our scope.
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Thank you, that's what I mean.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: beta test TT patch [message #413624 is a reply to message #413512] |
Wed, 09 December 2009 15:01 |
ELiT3FLyR
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how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence? half of renegade wasnt against it because they wouldnt get 50 extra points for hitting the harvy, as a certain person had u beleive.
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| Re: beta test TT patch [message #413628 is a reply to message #413512] |
Wed, 09 December 2009 15:27 |
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As a moderator:
DO NOT START A POINTSFIX DEBATE/FLAME WAR IN THIS TOPIC.
Offenders will be banned. Go start it where it belongs.
Renguard is a wonderful initiative
Toggle Spoiler
| BBC news, quoting... |
Supporters of Proposition 8 will argue California does not discriminate against gays, as the current law allows them to get married - as long as they wed a partner of the opposite sex.
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| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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[Updated on: Wed, 09 December 2009 15:27] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: beta test TT patch [message #413836 is a reply to message #413624] |
Sat, 12 December 2009 00:46 |
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Spoony
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| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 16:01 |
how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence? half of renegade wasnt against it because they wouldnt get 50 extra points for hitting the harvy, as a certain person had u beleive.
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again it seems that the extraordinary lengths i went to to acknowledge and respond to people's criticisms of the pointsfix are in inverse proportion to the attention they paid to my own statements.
the only criticism from you that lasted more than thirty seconds in a debate was about mesa (although the fact you focused on this one map while totally ignoring the vastly improved fairness of under, field and wallsfly said a lot more than you meant it to), and i said right from the beginning that this was because the map itself had a huge bug that could also be fixed (deadzones). lo and behold, fixing that has revolutionised the map.
don't go misrepresenting my statements on the pointsfix and don't go pretending that i didn't make an extraordinarly careful and thoughtful case in its favour, it's only gonna end with you looking stupid and/or dishonest yet again.
but i will agree with you on one thing: i won't hear it said that the pointsfix doesn't affect balance. of course it does; it fixes a glaring balance problem. getting points and credits for absolutely no reason. of course removing this bullshit is going to affect balance; the fact it affects balance so positively is the best thing about it.
"how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence?"
indeed. of course changing the original points system, thereby allowing you to get points and credits for absolutely no reason, will affect the game's balance.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Sat, 12 December 2009 00:59] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: beta test TT patch [message #414219 is a reply to message #413836] |
Wed, 16 December 2009 13:59 |
KobraOps
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| Spoony wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:46 |
"how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence?"
indeed. of course changing the original points system, thereby allowing you to get points and credits for absolutely no reason, will affect the game's balance.
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For "absolutely no reason" it has been perfectly fine the last 7 years.
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| Re: beta test TT patch [message #414226 is a reply to message #414219] |
Wed, 16 December 2009 15:33 |
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Spoony
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| KobraOps wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 14:59 |
| Spoony wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:46 |
"how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence?"
indeed. of course changing the original points system, thereby allowing you to get points and credits for absolutely no reason, will affect the game's balance.
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For "absolutely no reason" it has been perfectly fine the last 7 years.
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if you think it was "fine" then you obviously don't mind the wrong team winning, defensive play being rewarded instead of offensive play, the economy system almost disappearing, certain maps being horribly lopsided, the ladder being almost meaningless etc etc etc
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: beta test TT patch [message #414236 is a reply to message #414219] |
Wed, 16 December 2009 17:29 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
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| KobraOps wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 14:59 |
| Spoony wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 01:46 |
"how can you say that changing the point system doesnt effect balence?"
indeed. of course changing the original points system, thereby allowing you to get points and credits for absolutely no reason, will affect the game's balance.
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For "absolutely no reason" it has been perfectly fine the last 7 years.
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OH GOD NO, CHANGE
I GUESS WE HAVE TO BITCH AND MOAN ABOUT IT
why not play 1.00 version of Renegade while you're at it
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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| Re: beta test TT patch [message #414249 is a reply to message #414241] |
Wed, 16 December 2009 18:33 |
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Spoony
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| HaTe wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 18:44 |
And Spoony, did the ladder system ever really have a meaning?
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no, and the fact you could get points for absolutely no reason and the fact the wrong team won a lot of the time was a huge part of why.
i've drawn up a system to make the public-server ladder worth something, just waiting for it to be implemented. and i've already done so with the clan ladder, as you know.
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Not to mention that some of the other things you mentioned still exist..
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go on?
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I'm willing to adopt to whatever changes are made, but i would also prefer less major impact changes, so i do not have to adapt as much.
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it doesn't take much work to "adapt" to the original renegade points and economy system, you just need to remember to actually do damage instead of shooting things ineffectually.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: beta test TT patch [message #414250 is a reply to message #414249] |
Wed, 16 December 2009 18:56 |
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HaTe
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it doesn't take much work to "adapt" to the original renegade points and economy system, you just need to remember to actually do damage instead of shooting things ineffectually.
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Thing is, for example, if you are used to sniping, and getting points to win by shooting tanks with heavy armor, then it does take adaptation to know that there is now no point in shooting them. Just one of many examples i could use, just takes less time, and is easier on us all if we just don;t have to, if not needed. I know you feel that it IS needed, which is fine by me, just that others do not.
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ - Edmund Burke
[Updated on: Wed, 16 December 2009 18:56] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: beta test TT patch [message #414259 is a reply to message #414250] |
Wed, 16 December 2009 20:09 |
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Spoony
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| HaTe wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 19:56 |
Thing is, for example, if you are used to sniping, and getting points to win by shooting tanks with heavy armor, then it does take adaptation to know that there is now no point in shooting them.
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the fault for this belongs entirely to the points bug - it taught you ridiculously bad habits. still, it shouldn't take you much brainpower to get over that one - if your reaction upon seeing a heavy vehicle threatening your base is to shoot it ineffectually, i put it to you that you were never a good player in the first place.
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Just one of many examples i could use
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don't hide behind that, give all of the "many".
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just takes less time, and is easier on us all if we just don;t have to, if not needed. I know you feel that it IS needed, which is fine by me, just that others do not.
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well, that says it all, doesn't it.
if you don't think the maps should be fair, and if you don't think offensive play should trump defensive play, and if you don't think points ought to mean anything at all, and if you don't really think the game ought to have an economy system, then you won't see the need in implementing the original points system.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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