Home » Tiberian Technologies / Blackhand Studios » Tiberian Technologies Forum » sticking to walls
| Re: sticking to walls [message #349852 is a reply to message #349817] |
Mon, 08 September 2008 02:58   |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
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| s0meSkunk wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 04:07 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 06:31 |
The Renegadenetcode is build so that it would be playable even with shitloads of lag. To be able to properly play with high ping, you need the client to tell the server what it hit, and how much damage it did.
While in theory it is nice that the client can tell this, in practise it also throws the door wide open to cheaters. We are looking for ways to lessen the things the client determines, and increase the things the server determines. By doing so, a lot of cheats would directly become unusable.
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That sounds nice and all, but would it mean that you're going to change the netcode so trigger lag, bullet lag, etc. is increased or even introduced to the game????
I've been playing the game since 2002, and I play a fairly balanced mix of inf only, snipe only, CTF, and AOW...and the only times I notice lag is when the server teleports me to where it thinks I am, or when look like they're shooting what they're not.
That's not a big deal to me, and I don't know why it would ever be a big deal to anyone else.
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We're at the very least trying not to introduce any more lag, but, we also want to make cheating as hard as possible. And in theory, to make it totally cheat proof, everything would have to be done on the server. Of course that's impossible, so that is not going to happen, but we're looking for a decent balance betwwen cheat-resistant and lag-free.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
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| Re: sticking to walls [message #349886 is a reply to message #349319] |
Mon, 08 September 2008 09:21 |
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s0meSkunk
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Location: West Philadelphia
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If only newer FPS games did client tell server net code like Renegade does.
I can't stand other online FPS games because of their lag.
I would have never gotten addicted to inf only no basekill, or snipe only, or CTF if this game had the same net code other FPS games have.
I love it.
I press the mouse button, bullets instantly come out, and they hurt what I see them hit, sometimes not right away, if there's lots of lag...but the damage happens.
But worthiness precedes reward, and anti cheat is pretty important...but I know I won't be playing Renegade at all anymore if the same down sides of other FPS games are introduced to it.
"Sexy Kick!!!"
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| Re: sticking to walls [message #349932 is a reply to message #349886] |
Mon, 08 September 2008 12:26 |
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sadukar09
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| s0meSkunk wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 11:21 |
If only newer FPS games did client tell server net code like Renegade does.
I can't stand other online FPS games because of their lag.
I would have never gotten addicted to inf only no basekill, or snipe only, or CTF if this game had the same net code other FPS games have.
I love it.
I press the mouse button, bullets instantly come out, and they hurt what I see them hit, sometimes not right away, if there's lots of lag...but the damage happens.
But worthiness precedes reward, and anti cheat is pretty important...but I know I won't be playing Renegade at all anymore if the same down sides of other FPS games are introduced to it.
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Seriously, your points have been (even fucking Rocko makes better points than you.) the most retarded arguments in this TT forum. Seriously, cut the lies, and we might be inclined to listen to your bullshit again. (Oh hello, #1 player who doesn't even know how Renegade works, haha.)
| Quote: |
[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: sticking to walls [message #350159 is a reply to message #349932] |
Tue, 09 September 2008 14:05 |
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s0meSkunk
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Location: West Philadelphia
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I don't see what I lied about.
If you can point that out, that'd be nice.
Or you can keep acting like a jerk, and I can take my nice posts to a forum that appreciates nice people, like the people who actually like being married forum.
That's a nice place where everyone can have fun.
I know you have to lead your shots for certain weapon types in other games, but sniper weapons are generally instant shot weapons.
You have to lead your shots in Renegade if you use a rocket launcher, a tank, or a chain gunner or something.
But if you're using a sniper, or Raveshaw, or Mobius, no need. Cause there's no trigger lag, or shot lag, or bullet lag, or what have you.
In Gears of War, everyone has to lead with their sniper except for the host.
The host, who experiences no lag, has a sniper rifle that's pretty similar to Renegade's, except it only has one shot.
But it's an instant affect, and if you're host, you don't have to lead your shot.
In Renegade, if you're playing snipe only, you don't lead your shot.
You fire when your reticle is aiming at their head, and as long as their head is on the dot in your reticle when you fire your gun, they will die.
"Sexy Kick!!!"
[Updated on: Tue, 09 September 2008 14:10] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: sticking to walls [message #350162 is a reply to message #349319] |
Tue, 09 September 2008 14:40 |
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u6795
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Except the thing is a lot of games make you lead your shots on purpose. It's called physics.
Renegade has INSTA-DEATH upon clicking due to it being an arcadey game and I don't think they intended it to be like that.
yeah
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| Re: sticking to walls [message #350167 is a reply to message #349319] |
Tue, 09 September 2008 15:25 |
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s0meSkunk
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Yea, but that's only with sniper type weapons really, which other FPS that have snipers generally act the same way.
When you play Halo at a lan party, everyone's sniper has instant shots like that.
But if they shoot with something like a rocket, or a plasma gun then they have to lead their shots.
Maybe Halo's not the best example, but I can also sight Doom.
Doom lan games, you don't have to lead any of your shots except for rockets, plasma gun, and BFG shots.
But when you play those games online, their net code causes horrible lag, and you have to lead your shots with all your guns.
Renegade's net code is a gift from the heavens to people who hate FPS lag, like myself.
You don't see me playing much Gears of War or Zdaemon online, even though I love those games to death.
Their net code just ruins their online fun, unless you get a really good ping.
Renegade is so great, that you don't need a good ping, and if you don't have a good ping, you really just have to worry about slipping and sliding and teleporting all over the place, but that one accurate shot can make things go your way, because the lag doesn't interfere with your ability to aim.
I also think Renegade balances this out nicely with their physics.
In other FPS games, you move pretty slowly, and change directions slowly, or in games like Doom, you move really really fast, but then if you want to change which direction you're going, you have to come near to stopping.
Renegade lets you move at your max speed 100% of the time (unless you have scope up) and lets you dodge what would be easy shots in other FPS games.
Psycho strafing FTW.
I love Renegade, and I wish all the great old school inf only servers like LTroush's were still around.
"Sexy Kick!!!"
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| Re: sticking to walls [message #350169 is a reply to message #349319] |
Tue, 09 September 2008 15:33 |
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sadukar09
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I don't see Halo's rifle having instant hit, the bullet can actually bounce back and KILL YOU.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=qXfwd4_ydLM
Any battlefield games have travel time on Sniper rifles, which constitutes most of the best FPS' so your logic doesn't work.
| Quote: |
[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: sticking to walls [message #350174 is a reply to message #350169] |
Tue, 09 September 2008 15:46 |
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s0meSkunk
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I haven't played any Halo 3 multiplayer, so considered my Halo experience, Halo CE.
I haven't played any Battlefield games either, but my point was net code, and how it affects a guns design, yet how Renegade's net code does not affect a guns design.
But I did play Goldeneye 007 back when it was out for N64, and yet I don't remember if you had to lead your sniper shots or not, but more because no one played Snipers Only back then.
But I mostly played Doom on PC and online before that.
While I was also playing C&C Tiberian Dawn online and in ladders before Starcraft came out, and Starcraft still gets all the credit for being the first big multiplayer RTS.
"Sexy Kick!!!"
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| Re: sticking to walls [message #350177 is a reply to message #349319] |
Tue, 09 September 2008 15:49 |
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sadukar09
Messages: 2812
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So, you go from modern FPS (Halo) to old FPS (Golden Eye) then to RTS? What the hell? I gave you about 60% of the best FPS', and they all have travel time on the Sniper Rifle, so your points are null.
| Quote: |
[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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| Quote: |
[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: sticking to walls [message #350205 is a reply to message #350177] |
Tue, 09 September 2008 19:08 |
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s0meSkunk
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| sadukar09 wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 18:49 |
So, you go from modern FPS (Halo) to old FPS (Golden Eye) then to RTS? What the hell? I gave you about 60% of the best FPS', and they all have travel time on the Sniper Rifle, so your points are null.
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But I've never played them, I hate WW2, and I wouldn't want to play a game about WW2, so how does that make them the best FPS' around???????????
It's more realistic to have travel time on the sniper rifle, I'll agree.
But most FPS games do not have travel time on the sniper rifle.
Leading your shots on an instant travel time is having to deal with lag, it's not design.
Leading my shots with something like the Chaingun or the Rocekt Launcher in Renegade is design.
I don't have to lead my shots in Renegade Online because Renegade has good net code because it lets you fire your gun with no lag, and lets your bullet come out with no lag.
You see your target, that's the target you have to hit.
Thus equaling good online game play because of the net code.
In Halo PC, you see your enemy...but your enemy is not even there.
Your target is where the enemy really is, but your enemy is invisible because of the lag, you're seeing where your enemy was.
So Halo PC, you have to guess where to shoot.
On top of that...you also have trigger lag, you press your mouse button, the gun fires a few seconds later.
On Halo PC, you also have bullet lag. Not only does your gun fire a few seconds later, the bullet appears a few seconds later, AND you have to have the bullet hit your invisible enemy.
THAT's bad net code.
Now, on Halo PC, you don't teleport or slide all over the place, but the game is close to unplayable anyway.
Renegade, you simply slide and warp, and it's only a big problem if the lag is really bad.
You see people shooting where they aren't, which is not a big deal.
How can you guys say Renegade's net code is awful????
"Sexy Kick!!!"
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| Re: sticking to walls [message #350236 is a reply to message #349319] |
Wed, 10 September 2008 01:18 |
StealthEye
Messages: 2518
Registered: May 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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The stuff you are talking about is not netcode. It was decided to be done that way because of one single reason: They realized their netcode was not good enough to do it like other games. There is actually a flag you can set to enable this behaviour in renegade, anyone remember the "untrust" stuff in BIATCH? The reason it does not work very well is a direct result of the bad netcode.
A result of the decision to make the client responsible for the damaging instead is a godsend for cheaters. It's the main reason why so many cheats are possible in Renegade.
Renegade has, without doubt, no good netcode at all. The things you are talking about are design decisions, a result and basically prove of Renegade's bad netcode.
BlackIntel admin/founder/coder
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
[Updated on: Wed, 10 September 2008 01:19] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: sticking to walls [message #350241 is a reply to message #350236] |
Wed, 10 September 2008 02:58 |
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s0meSkunk
Messages: 62
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Location: West Philadelphia
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Well whatever.
It's much better than what I have to deal with in other FPS games.
I wish the anti cheat could keep up however : (
"Sexy Kick!!!"
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| Re: sticking to walls [message #350245 is a reply to message #350241] |
Wed, 10 September 2008 03:40 |
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sadukar09
Messages: 2812
Registered: May 2007
Location: Ottawa,Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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| s0meSkunk wrote on Wed, 10 September 2008 04:58 |
Well whatever.
It's much better than what I have to deal with in other FPS games.
I wish the anti cheat could keep up however : (
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Please tell me you are stupid, is Battlefield 2142 in World War 2? Battlefield 2 is in World War 2 also isn't it? How about Call of Duty 4 Modern Combat?
| Quote: |
[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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| Quote: |
[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: sticking to walls [message #350291 is a reply to message #349319] |
Wed, 10 September 2008 12:06 |
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u6795
Messages: 1261
Registered: March 2006
Location: Maryland
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General (1 Star) |
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You seem like you have no idea what you're talking about. Funny I say this because I don't have that much of a clue when it comes to the Renegade engine myself, but still.
yeah
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