Home » Tiberian Technologies / Blackhand Studios » Tiberian Technologies Forum » Fixing... Points?
| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349368 is a reply to message #346858] |
Thu, 04 September 2008 22:12   |
Rocko
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the better team is going to win either way lol. with or without it, teamwork matters. and plus im not a point whore like spoony and i care more about ending games on base kill than points.
black and proud
[Updated on: Thu, 04 September 2008 22:12] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349378 is a reply to message #346858] |
Thu, 04 September 2008 23:45 |
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Goztow
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Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
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I don't understand how you fail to see how flawed your logic objectively is. In short it says: you need to loose buildings to have a chance to win. Like on field: you need to let your war factory die so they cannot shoot it anymore and so you can get infantry that gets a shitload of points for doing no damage at all.
Or another way of putting it: the loosing team gets a sort of bonus for loosing its buildings, namely a bigger chance to win on points.
As for the harv cannot be blocked: stop playing on servers that don't allow you to block the harvester. I mean... this has absolutely nothing to do with this whole question. Same goes for damage changes: TT will do no damage changes whatsoever. I don't get where you read this? Or did you just make assumptions without reading anything at all?
With regards to your exemple: 25 players camping in their barracks, all of whom got lots of money because they get tons of points and money from shooting tanks and doing no damage at all -> you cannot kill them at all because of the tank limit. There's a limit of 7 tanks (not 8, mister I'm number 1 player) + the harvester on standard renegade and this limit is kept on most servers. There's no way you're going to kill 25 pic's/mobius'es/engineers/whatever infantry they got that are just waiting around their barracks with 7 flamers. You'll just get raped. The nukes will just give them 300 extra points.
What you would logically do, as their refinery is dead, is try to kill their heavy characters and run them out of money so that you can go nuke or flame or stank rush when they're out of money/heavy characters. But due to the crazy amount of points/money they get every time you rush in with apc's to kill those characters, that's simply not possible.
The only thing left to do is to stop getting vehicles and all take snipers for the rest of the game. So in short: if the enemy looses his war factory, you must stop using your airstrip to avoid loosing. Can you see how flawed that is?
Maybe you should try playing on a point fix server. You're making a lot of presumptions while I have the feeling you haven't thoroughly tested this bug fix. I have been playing on a server that has it for about a year now and I have seen all possible outcomes. But one thing that I didn't notice anymore is people complaining that the enemy team "stole" the win by abusing this bug. If someone looses on points, it's because they didn't do as well as the other team. It's not because they did rush after rush on the enemy and that enemy got a billion points from shooting their tanks with snipers/basic infantry/whatever.
One last thing: how do you justify a player getting more points from shooting a harvester with a rifle soldier and doing no damage to it whatsoever, than a player shooting a harvester with a grenadier and killing it. If score is supposed to be somewhat related to damage / skill, then how exactly how do you justify this?
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349401 is a reply to message #349398] |
Fri, 05 September 2008 05:04 |
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sadukar09
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Location: Ottawa,Canada
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| Surth wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 05:59 |
| Rocko wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 00:12 |
the better team is going to win either way lol. with or without it, teamwork matters. and plus im not a point whore like spoony and i care more about ending games on base kill than points.
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Are you stupid? Because you sure sound stupid when you write up crap like that.
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You need to ask he's stupid?
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[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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| Quote: |
[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349412 is a reply to message #346858] |
Fri, 05 September 2008 06:16 |
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Crimson
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You want to make a convincing argument for GDI winning by spamming high infantry when left with only barracks. What about when you're on Nod? What about when you pull off a good rush and take out the Ref and the WF and now you can't win because of all the damn PICs running around? You deserved you win and it got taken from you because GDI is getting way too much money and points off your tanks than they deserve for the amount of damage they do.
Also, it doesn't take teamwork and talent to win as GDI when you only have your barracks left. The fact that GDI wins in these situations probably 75% or more of the times that this happens, speaks to the fact that it's NOT in fact more skillful to defend your barracks while being mauled by Nod.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349429 is a reply to message #349412] |
Fri, 05 September 2008 08:38 |
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sadukar09
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| Crimson wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 08:16 |
You want to make a convincing argument for GDI winning by spamming high infantry when left with only barracks. What about when you're on Nod? What about when you pull off a good rush and take out the Ref and the WF and now you can't win because of all the damn PICs running around? You deserved you win and it got taken from you because GDI is getting way too much money and points off your tanks than they deserve for the amount of damage they do.
Also, it doesn't take teamwork and talent to win as GDI when you only have your barracks left. The fact that GDI wins in these situations probably 75% or more of the times that this happens, speaks to the fact that it's NOT in fact more skillful to defend your barracks while being mauled by Nod.
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Not to mention getting a regular soldier, shoot a Stealth Tank for 10 seconds, you earn about 50~75 points for doing about 5 damage.
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[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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| Quote: |
[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349434 is a reply to message #349412] |
Fri, 05 September 2008 09:11 |
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s0meSkunk
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I'd say Nod has the advantage once the WF goes down, since they have the best artillery, and the best base killing unit in the flame tank.
I think we've always been able to crush a rax camp with 8 flame tanks + 8 passenger nukes...but I like being on the other side too and feeling I still have a good chance to win.
I felt points were related to damage, skill, and what type of unit you have.
When you kill a Sakura, you get 100 points.
You could kill ten shot gunners and only get 30 points...where's the "fairness" in that???
Why is a ramjet unit worth a 100 point risk?????
Because he can gain points shooting tanks while he kills time until he can do something useful like take out a Raveshaw, or a mobile artillery.
Therefore he's going to be doing his team some good even when he's useless.
Stanks by design are supposed to give away tons of points, and let you get tons of points at the same time.
Just because some n00b told us they aren't supposed to, they're supposed to be the penultimate weapon of Nod, doesn't mean we're supposed to listen.
Buildings seem to be the only thing where points are tied in to the damage.
Unless they changed something on the servers, the vehicle limit is 8 vehicles + 1 Harvester = 9
"Sexy Kick!!!"
[Updated on: Fri, 05 September 2008 09:12] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349440 is a reply to message #346858] |
Fri, 05 September 2008 10:08 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9728
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Goztoe |
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Vehicle limit has always been 7 + 1.
Maybe you can explain then why when you shoot tanks that are yellow or red in health, the points are even to the damage? Because there is a bug in the green part maybe? Before you say the bug is in the yellow and red part: why is it that for every building and infantry unit, the green, yellow and red health status all have one thing in common: points = related to damage. Why, oh why?
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349444 is a reply to message #349440] |
Fri, 05 September 2008 10:40 |
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s0meSkunk
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Go test and see what the vehicle limit is, please.
I tested before I posted by creating a sandbox game.
So, unless something changed on the servers, like everything has been. (points fix, PT fix, damage fix, stupid crates, etc.)
Then you're wrong.
"Sexy Kick!!!"
[Updated on: Fri, 05 September 2008 10:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349655 is a reply to message #346858] |
Sat, 06 September 2008 21:21 |
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R315r4z0r
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Even though I have been playing Renegade for years without knowing about this points fix, it obviously seems like the best decision.
Just because both teams can do it (regardless if it is balanced between the two) doesn't mean that it is balanced and should be left alone.
The problem isn't in the fact that you are gaining points for playing the game. The problem lies in that you are getting points at an rate that doesn't match the effort put in. And in turn, throws off the balance of the game.
For example, lets say you and a friend each want to buy this really nice TV. However there is only one left in the store and so the two of you compete for it by getting different jobs earning money to buy the TV. Lets say you get a job as a doctor (hypothetically speaking) and your friend gets a job working a road-side lemonade stand. However, at the end of the day, your friend gets more money than you for less effort and thus buys the TV.
This is essentially what Renegade is without the points fix. With the points fix, you are simply rounding out effort and compensation in a way that they compliment each other in an even and balanced way.
I honestly do not see what the problem is with people not wanting it. It barely changes anything noticeable, and only adjusts for the better. Simply keeping it the way it is now will only promote anger and stress in the game for the victims of this problem... and for what? So people can get their selfish ways for winning a game they should of had no chance in?
[Updated on: Sat, 06 September 2008 21:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349657 is a reply to message #349456] |
Sat, 06 September 2008 21:38 |
Homey
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| Goztow wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 15:13 |
Edit: it's 7 + 1 for clients and 8 + 1 for hosts, meaning a host advantage.
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Never knew that. Always thought it was 8 max (so 7+1)
Homey
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349682 is a reply to message #349655] |
Sun, 07 September 2008 03:25 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 06:21 |
Even though I have been playing Renegade for years without knowing about this points fix, it obviously seems like the best decision.
Just because both teams can do it (regardless if it is balanced between the two) doesn't mean that it is balanced and should be left alone.
The problem isn't in the fact that you are gaining points for playing the game. The problem lies in that you are getting points at an rate that doesn't match the effort put in. And in turn, throws off the balance of the game.
For example, lets say you and a friend each want to buy this really nice TV. However there is only one left in the store and so the two of you compete for it by getting different jobs earning money to buy the TV. Lets say you get a job as a doctor (hypothetically speaking) and your friend gets a job working a road-side lemonade stand. However, at the end of the day, your friend gets more money than you for less effort and thus buys the TV.
This is essentially what Renegade is without the points fix. With the points fix, you are simply rounding out effort and compensation in a way that they compliment each other in an even and balanced way.
I honestly do not see what the problem is with people not wanting it. It barely changes anything noticeable, and only adjusts for the better. Simply keeping it the way it is now will only promote anger and stress in the game for the victims of this problem... and for what? So people can get their selfish ways for winning a game they should of had no chance in?
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Well spoken, though for some reason the nay camp has a lot of people either reading or understanding arguments. I hope you've been able to explain it in a way they do get it...
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349684 is a reply to message #349657] |
Sun, 07 September 2008 03:29 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9728
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
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Goztoe |
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| Homey wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 06:38 |
| Goztow wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 15:13 |
Edit: it's 7 + 1 for clients and 8 + 1 for hosts, meaning a host advantage.
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Never knew that. Always thought it was 8 max (so 7+1)
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Well, on dedicated servers everyone's a client. So it's normal u never noticed, I didn't know it before either.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349726 is a reply to message #349368] |
Sun, 07 September 2008 09:56 |
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Spoony
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Registered: January 2006
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| Rocko wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 01:12 |
the better team is going to win either way lol. with or without it, teamwork matters. and plus im not a point whore like spoony and i care more about ending games on base kill than points.
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hmm, you wanna bet I win a higher percentage of my games by basekill than you win by basekill AND points put together?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349729 is a reply to message #349444] |
Sun, 07 September 2008 10:15 |
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Spoony
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Registered: January 2006
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| s0meSkunk wrote |
Ramjets are supposed to be a very good weapon.
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yes, and they are... they do extreme damage to infantry from as-good-as-infinite range, high rate of fire, are the most powerful anti-light-vehicle weapon infantry can use and the best anti-aircraft counter... they aren't supposed to get points shooting stuff they don't damage, and they DON'T NEED points shooting stuff they don't damage to be effective.
if you think otherwise, then quite simply you suck with a ramjet.
| s0meSkunk wrote |
The other thing that seems to be going around, is halving the damage that sipers do the light armored vehicles.
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TT isn't doing that in the patch.
| s0meSkunk wrote |
I remember how pissed off people were when they made it a rule to NOT block harvesters when you're pinned in your base...WTF, of course we want to block the harvester, it's giving away points.
In C&C Tiberian Dawn, do you send your harv out to eat Tiberium when there's 8 Medium Tanks outside the entrance of your base????
NO!
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This analogy is downright broken. In the C&Cs you could specifically and directly CONTROL your harvester. You can give it a move order just like you can with a tank. In Renegade you can't, you have to get it jammed behind a light post or something which clearly isn't supposed to happen, it's just crappy AI.
That is aside from the rather obvious point that if you can't take the field back from the enemy, they deserve some points from killing your harvester.
| s0meSkunk wrote |
And what's with the harvester giving away no points now?????
It's BS.
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this is categorically false. the harvester does give points away when the pointsfix is used... here's your problem: you actually have to damage it. I get the feeling that never really occurred to you.
| s0meSkunk wrote |
And yea, Mammoth Tanks and Stanks currently give away tons of points, which is part of the balance.
It's a risk to use Stanks or Mammoth Tanks, because they can potentially win the game for you if used right.
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and this is true with the pointsfix, but with the pointsfix they give a SENSIBLE amount of points away. before the pointsfix, the points they gave away was absolutely absurd, as well as something we have conclusively proven was not supposed to happen, as well as something which clearly MISbalances the game.
| s0meSkunk wrote |
Point fix is a broken idea, if players don't want it, then why would you implement it??
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if SOME players don't want it, they can be thankful we're giving a server-side choice.
| s0meSkunk wrote |
Isn't point fix going to make it impossible to win if you only have a rax left and are defending from a complete base in 25 vs 25 player games?
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no, it just means you actually have to earn the win.
| s0meSkunk wrote |
How exactly is it a bug???????????
I was pretty sure Ramjets were supposed to be $1000 elite infantry, which is why they get more points for shooting vehicles.
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see above.
| s0meSkunk wrote |
You should win because they can't kill your last building.
Plain and simple, you should win if they got you down that far and your team banded together to defend for a long time.
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holy shit, this has gotta be the dumbest post I've read in... oh, about a week.
you're saying that if I kill half your base, I should LOSE if the game ends by points and not basekill. you're saying killing enemy buildings MEANS YOU'RE LOSING.
just... wow.
| s0meSkunk wrote |
But I can't stand playing AOW with these point and damage fixes in place.
It's too hard to defend from artillery
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uh... med tank? you say you were rank 1?
| s0meSkunk wrote |
and if you're a havoc, and there's no arty to defend from, then you just sit and can't get points, you spent $1000 for nothing.
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why would you buy a havoc if the enemy has no infantry or light vehicles?
you say you were rank 1?
| s0meSkunk wrote |
The original code makes sense to me, and I feel these people have interpreted it in the wrong way.
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again, categorically false.
| s0meSkunk wrote |
You can tell me I don't have enough experience on the subject etc. etc.
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well, you aren't exactly making it difficult.
| s0meSkunk wrote |
It balanced field, and gave you an option if you're GDI to lose your WF
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this says it all... nothing about actually using skill and teamwork to TAKE THE FIELD BACK (and you boast about being rank 1... sigh...)
| s0meSkunk wrote |
If you pinned in your base, you blocked your harvester, something that's no longer allowed and I can't fathom why.
I mean, I guess I can put together some retard theories.
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you can and indeed, you have.
| s0meSkunk wrote |
If you change the point system, they'll lose no matter what because they won't get their proper points off of tanks, and won't have any way to get points to win.
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I just laugh at your use of the word "proper"... it just shows you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. The pointsfix means you get the PROPER points for shooting tanks, the amount you were SUPPOSED TO GET, which is based on damage. Before the pointsfix, you got the WRONG points for shooting tanks.
| s0meSkunk wrote |
The team with better team work should win
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yeah, but before the pointsfix they often didn't... thanks to the bugs you seem to think are the saving grace of renegade. but like you said, you were rank 1... I guess winning is more important than whether you deserved to, right?
| s0meSkunk wrote |
I was rank 1 on the old ladder many times, and there were many a close game I played, some we lost, some we won, but there were so many games we would have simply auto lost if it wasn't for the point system being the way it was.
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yep, looks like my suspicions were correct...
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349819 is a reply to message #349729] |
Sun, 07 September 2008 19:16 |
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s0meSkunk
Messages: 62
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Location: West Philadelphia
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Well I guess it's just the end of interesting comebacks for Renegade.
I hate politics, and that's all this shit is.
One person says the code is wrong, another says it's right, and both have good points, and both say the others "good points" aren't "good points" at all.
No one deserves points off of the enemies harvester if the enemy is smart enough to block it.
When you take away freedoms, the game isn't as fun.
Like how snipe only has just become a teleport to the tunnel BS fest, when you used to have the option to snipe in the field.
I always sniped in the tunnel anyway, but I liked the occasional field snipe...whatever.
Edit
I read the previous topic, what ioncloud9 had said, and the posted info on the points fix and why it makes sense.
It does make sense.
But what ioncloud9 had said makes sense too.
Therefore, you're both right.
Maybe Westwood made Renegade like this on purpose to balance infantry vs. tanks.
Or maybe Renegade was a fluke that's popular because of a bug.
No way to know.
But I'm on Ion's side because I used to play with him all the time, and know he knows the game as good as anyone else.
I'm not going to post anymore on this subject, because it's an endless debate whole where everything everyone says is going to be right no matter what because it's all opinions.
May God help Renegade stay good fun and popular
"Sexy Kick!!!"
[Updated on: Sun, 07 September 2008 19:49] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349848 is a reply to message #349832] |
Mon, 08 September 2008 01:53 |
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s0meSkunk
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| Aircraftkiller wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 01:21 |
You're an idiot, stop trying.
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First, which part about it being my last post on the subject didn't you understand?
Second, I didn't insult anyone.
So whichever side has more people insulting people I automatically view as the side who's opinion matters the least.
Great job.
You're a good person deep down I bet.
"Sexy Kick!!!"
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349850 is a reply to message #346858] |
Mon, 08 September 2008 02:12 |
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Chuck Norris
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skunk, let me say I sort of understand where you're coming from, having once thought the points fix makes the game less fun, but I have to agree that your points aren't really valid from an argument point of view. It does make it more competitive because less people are "fooling around", but it's still fun. Back then, if you were even half skilled in a vehicle, you would dominate because everyone else fooled around and not many people competitively played, but now, everyone competes because the bug is gone, so what you're seeing now is the game the way is was intended to be from the start, but due to bad coding/time limits/the Westwood liquidation, it never got fixed. It's still fun, more fun once you see the balance is fixed, but the game is just being played as it supposed to be.
I think you have to look at it this way for it to make most sense. Take points OUT OF THE PICTURE ENTIRELY for just one second. Now, that leaves the option that you win by base destruction. Winning by points is the FALLBACK, not the ALTERNATIVE. That's how you have to look at this game for it to make sense. Westwood never intended points as a prime way to win with disproportionate points being given to those who do, in literal senses, nothing. Points never had ANYTHING to do with Command & Conquer games and victory. It's just a fallback in case the time runs out (if it isn't a marathon). They never intended it to be a way to be attempted to win. It's just like this to the game's mind. "Okay, the time has run out and neither team lost it's entire base, and this team has more points, so I assume they did better overall, and thus win." However, if one team really does better and the other just uses the points bugs to get more points, the game incorrectly gives the worse team the win. THAT'S NOT FUN NOR HOW IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE. Because of this bug, too many people actually made winning by points more possible as an alternative by exploiting this bug in the system. It's not the intended way to win. Westwood would not make it a "strategy" to snipe tanks for no damage and win the game the way. Infantry do stand a chance against tanks. It's called PIC Sydney, Mobius, Raveshaw, Mendoza, rockets, etc. Snipers are good for light armor vehicles too, which brings me to the point you mentioned about alot of servers halving their damage to lightly armored vehicles. THAT part IS completely stupid, and I agree with you there, it destroys balance (those servers might as well at least halve their cost to make it half fair then), BUT, that is not a part of the points fix. That's a separate individual change. The points fix itself just fixes a logical error, and the only reason you could possibly be complaining is because you were exploiting this bug at times. The only reason people complain about these fixes is because they like using these exploits, but in the long run, they've damaged the balance and gameplay. The fact that people think this is how it was meant to be or how it should be just proves it. This and the PT bug just need stamped out of existence entirely.
Edit: As for snipers, the way I see it is, they're in the game for two reasons, and neither is huge. Snipers aren't really the be all they sort of are (due to the bug in the points system). Snipers never traditionally had a big part in Command & Conquer at all. The first is, shooting games have snipers alot of the times, and it is fun, either versus other snipers or infantry. The second is they can take out other infantry (i.e., actually help their team's cause by taking down a fighter or support class character helping the other team rather than another sniper). They already are THE anti-air units, lethal to infantry, have an extremely long range, and damage lightly armored vehicles pretty good, again, at long range. The only thing they lack is damage to buildings and heavy armor vehicles. If they can amass huge points off of the tanks, WHAT WEAKNESS DO THEY HAVE? Don't say that they can't damage buildings because that's negated when you can just pick on tanks and get free points. They were never meant to fight tanks and win, thus do no damage, so should be awarded no "count" of winning in that scenario, but again, when the game incorrectly gives you so many points as though you won it when you did not, it counts towards your overall team points incorrectly, which can obviously, in a BS way, affect the outcome of a game.
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[Updated on: Mon, 08 September 2008 02:35] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349854 is a reply to message #349819] |
Mon, 08 September 2008 04:39 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| s0meSkunk wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 21:16 |
Well I guess it's just the end of interesting comebacks for Renegade.
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no it's not, a losing team can absolutely possibly come back and win, they just need to earn it now. Spending ten minutes shooting stuff you don't damage isn't teamwork, it isn't outplaying your enemy, and it isn't "earning" the win... it's just fucking stupid and it misbalances the game.
| s0meSkunk wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 21:16 |
I hate politics, and that's all this shit is.
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uh no, it's a fix for a bug quite a lot of people don't like, and yet we're leaving the option open for people to play the bugged version.
| s0meSkunk wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 21:16 |
One person says the code is wrong, another says it's right, and both have good points, and both say the others "good points" aren't "good points" at all.
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unfortunately there are two points that need crowbarring into this sentence.
1. the pro-pointsfix crowd can prove it when they say the code is wrong. the anti-pointsfix crowd can't prove it when they say the code is right
2. the pro-pointsfix crowd can logically explain it when they say your points aren't good points at all. you can't logically explain it when you say the pro-pointsfix crowd aren't good points.
it's like evolution vs creationism all over again, it really is.
| s0meSkunk wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 21:16 |
No one deserves points off of the enemies harvester if the enemy is smart enough to block it.
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sorry, but this patch isn't making it impossible to block the harvester... each server gets to decide whether that's allowed, just like was the case before. go bitch to the server owners about that, not TT.
| s0meSkunk wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 21:16 |
When you take away freedoms, the game isn't as fun.
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well, this is always going to be a matter of opinion. making it impossible to cheat is going to be less fun for cheaters, disallowing tunnel beacons is going to be less fun for people who like tunnel beaconing, and fixing the points bug is going to be less fun for people who can only ever win games by shooting stuff they don't damage.
still, be thankful the option to play on a non-pointsfix server is there. unfortunately for you, you aren't gonna get rank 1 by that nonsense anymore... you'll actually have to damage the enemy if you want that.
| s0meSkunk wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 21:16 |
Like how snipe only has just become a teleport to the tunnel BS fest, when you used to have the option to snipe in the field.
I always sniped in the tunnel anyway, but I liked the occasional field snipe...whatever.
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you've well and truly lost me here... how has the pointsfix prevented you being able to "snipe in the field"? unless you're describing "sniping" as shooting heavy tanks with a weapon that barely damages them?
| s0meSkunk wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 21:16 |
But what ioncloud9 had said makes sense too.
But I'm on Ion's side because I used to play with him all the time, and know he knows the game as good as anyone else.
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firstly I'll lay odds I know it a lot better than ioncloud, secondly he's already admitted he was wrong about the majority of the things he said... dunno if that means anything to you.
| s0meSkunk wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 21:16 |
Maybe Westwood made Renegade like this on purpose to balance infantry vs. tanks.
Or maybe Renegade was a fluke that's popular because of a bug.
No way to know.
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there is, actually... it's been categorically proven that the pointsfix is how the original points system should've been, and the anti-pointsfix crowd has never, never refuted all the evidence.
| s0meSkunk wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 21:16 |
I'm not going to post anymore on this subject, because it's an endless debate whole where everything everyone says is going to be right no matter what because it's all opinions.
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this is what people always say to make themselves feel better about the fact they were wrong about stuff. and I hate to break it to you, but you were.
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