Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » The meaning of life?
| The meaning of life? [message #255606] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 04:00  |
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jnz
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What is the meaning of life? What is our purpose? Why are we here? Is everything purely religion? Or was our existence just a massive chance and we should consider ourselves very lucky to be here? Discuss...
If you have an opinion please don't try and force/persuade it on someone.
[Updated on: Wed, 25 April 2007 04:01] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255629 is a reply to message #255606] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 06:46  |
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NukeIt15
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The answer is quite obvious. There really is only one thing it could possibly be:
42
...of course, that still leaves finding the rest of the question...
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255631 is a reply to message #255606] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 07:10 |
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AoBfrost
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Meh, this thread is one of those these people argue and become enemies because of their different belief, but in my opion God created man iin his own image, no stupid big bang, fire balls of doom burn things, not make living things, but just tio make things clear
Christains in their belief know how the world started and will end
Atheist dont know how for sure, or how the world will end
So i mean, I'm for the Christain side, I used to be Aethiest myself, but after really seeing their ideas explained to me compared to the big bang theory or evolution, it makes a lot of more sense, I mean i cant explain it scientifically, but then again, Christianity isnt based on science, but more of faith and experiences.
I dont want anyone to relate to my post unless your making a positive comment, not because I dont want to argue, but because I dont want this thread to become a flame thread and be closed, I just wanted to state my opinion like gamemodding said to.
| Scrin wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 12:19 |
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255637 is a reply to message #255606] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 07:39 |
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warranto
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The meaning of life is to continue to live.
The way you can arrive at this is by looking at the most basic parts that all life has in common. Survival.
To allow the species to thrive and prosper is the only real reason life exists in the first place, and why all life is driven toward that purpose. What would be the use of existing if we were to just die out? Therefor, in order to prevent that, we must sustain the species as long as possible. To that effect, the only reason we live is to ensure our survival. Life does not have any real greater purpose, even if you include the worship of a god. If that were the greater purpose, rather than an extra, we would have developed as mindless automatons
The purpose of life has nothing to do with religion. Religion is simply our way of interpreting the will of God. I'm Roman Catholic, and even I can understand that.(Heck, I also believe in evolution and the big bang, and it's not so exclusive of God as people would like you to believe).
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255645 is a reply to message #255631] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 08:10 |
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Nightma12
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| AoBfrost wrote on Wed, 25 April 2007 09:10 |
Meh, this thread is one of those these people argue and become enemies because of their different belief, but in my opion God created man iin his own image, no stupid big bang, fire balls of doom burn things, not make living things, but just tio make things clear
Christains in their belief know how the world started and will end
Atheist dont know how for sure, or how the world will end
So i mean, I'm for the Christain side, I used to be Aethiest myself, but after really seeing their ideas explained to me compared to the big bang theory or evolution, it makes a lot of more sense, I mean i cant explain it scientifically, but then again, Christianity isnt based on science, but more of faith and experiences.
I dont want anyone to relate to my post unless your making a positive comment, not because I dont want to argue, but because I dont want this thread to become a flame thread and be closed, I just wanted to state my opinion like gamemodding said to.
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i dont see why people cant believe in both?
i personally am a catholic however i believe that God created the universe THOUGH the big bang. and about 7 days.... there was no such thing as a day back then, therefore a day could of been any ammount of time
in this mordern day n age.. theres no denying that the big bang happened, but that dousnt mean it proves anybody religion wrong/incorrect?
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255652 is a reply to message #255606] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 08:37 |
MexPirate
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God damn, warranto hit it on the head - it's all about living and continuing to live and evolve (through offspring).
Religion imo is just a load of bollocks people use to supply answers to questions that cannot be answered.
Trying to deny evolution and upholding the theory of creation just seems completely bizarre to me - there is no EVIDENCE for creation, only a belief, that as I see it comes purely from humans.
Evolution on the other hand has such an overwhelming wealth of evidence it can only be denied by people who hold beliefs and therefor close themselves off to ideas.
It is my opinion that evolution demonstrates the purpose of life to be to survive and improve yourself nothing more.
It's a mexican pirate .... F*ck a dog by Blink 182
[Updated on: Wed, 25 April 2007 08:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255653 is a reply to message #255606] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 08:39 |
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AoBfrost
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Well, you see theres a problem, I'm not aiming toward any of you individuals, but I say that if you belive that you are truley catholic/christain then why believe in the big bang when they contradict what you claim you are, if your truley christain/catholic then you belive God made you , and not the way crap science brings out today, all of these big bang theory's are just taught in schools because some dont want to learn about creation, so then others who might want to are disabled from the ability to learn about it, teaching only 1 veiwpoint in school is what then make kids believe thats how the world started, schools today dont even give the chance to teach creationism anymore, I think schools should have 2 science classes during the time when they teach about evolution, 1 for evolution and 1 for creationism.
| Scrin wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 12:19 |
''whoa im the photoshop''
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KANE LIVES!!!
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255655 is a reply to message #255653] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 08:41 |
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mrpirate
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| AoBfrost wrote on Wed, 25 April 2007 11:39 |
I think schools should have 2 science classes during the time when they teach about evolution, 1 for evolution and 1 for creationism.
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They can learn about creationism in religion class because it's not science.
edit: sorry for the double post, two people posted while I was writing my first post
[Updated on: Wed, 25 April 2007 08:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255656 is a reply to message #255606] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 08:50 |
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There is no good explanation of what the meaning of life is.
Do we exist by chance? Are we the pawns of something bigger than us?
Either way, I guess we can all agree that life has a way of throwing you through loops constantly in a never ending roller coaster of annoyances and disappointments. Life sucks. You just have to find the good in it more often than not. I know I have to right now, and it isn't easy... by any means.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255658 is a reply to message #255653] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 08:50 |
MexPirate
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| AoBfrost wrote on Wed, 25 April 2007 11:39 |
Well, you see theres a problem, I'm not aiming toward any of you individuals, but I say that if you belive that you are truley catholic/christain then why believe in the big bang when they contradict what you claim you are, if your truley christain/catholic then you belive God made you , and not the way crap science brings out today, all of these big bang theory's are just taught in schools because some dont want to learn about creation, so then others who might want to are disabled from the ability to learn about it, teaching only 1 veiwpoint in school is what then make kids believe thats how the world started, schools today dont even give the chance to teach creationism anymore, I think schools should have 2 science classes during the time when they teach about evolution, 1 for evolution and 1 for creationism.
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Flying spaghetti monsters anyone?
The problem is that if you choose to believe in a god/religion you shouldn't be forced to believe every single part of it, science allows for ideas and theories that are not set in stone - a scientist is happy to be proven wrong and theories such as darwins theory of evolution are being modified all the time to include new evidence and become as accurate as possible.
Creation can be taught in schools as part of religous education, it CANNOT be taught in the same way as evolution because it has no scientific basis only belief that is down to each individual.
creationism isn't a science, there is no evidence.
evolution is supported every step of the way from fossil records, comparison of species living today, microbiology, embryoligy and many other sciences.
It's a mexican pirate .... F*ck a dog by Blink 182
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255661 is a reply to message #255606] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 08:59 |
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AoBfrost
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Well, when i meant a science class, I meant more like the choice of which they want to learn of how the earth was made, creation or bigband/evolution, stating it as science class just meant sitting in one rather than the other during the normal class time.
Evolution isnt fully supported like you claim, sure it seems to make sense, but theres always missing species to complete this and that step, such as where are the mising links? No one has ever found one, if one was found, evolution would be more reputable, but i for one just take it as knowledge, but not belief. You cant go back in time for have text to show evolution is real, but the christains and catholics have text in which they believe is true, so like i said, we have evidence of evolution, which may make it true, while christains have their own faith and belief which also adds to show how the world may have been made, I'm not saying "I'm right, your wrong" but I am just stating what i believe is to be true.
You say choosing to belive in religion doesnt mean you must belive it all, but if you truley say your christain/catholic then obviously you do belive everything your religion has to offer you, or else you wouldnt call yourself these things, you'd be more of a person who doesnt belive, yet has family/goes to church that is christain/catholic.
| Scrin wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 12:19 |
''whoa im the photoshop''
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KANE LIVES!!!
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255662 is a reply to message #255658] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 09:03 |
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| MexPirate wrote on Wed, 25 April 2007 11:50 |
| AoBfrost wrote on Wed, 25 April 2007 11:39 |
Well, you see theres a problem, I'm not aiming toward any of you individuals, but I say that if you belive that you are truley catholic/christain then why believe in the big bang when they contradict what you claim you are, if your truley christain/catholic then you belive God made you , and not the way crap science brings out today, all of these big bang theory's are just taught in schools because some dont want to learn about creation, so then others who might want to are disabled from the ability to learn about it, teaching only 1 veiwpoint in school is what then make kids believe thats how the world started, schools today dont even give the chance to teach creationism anymore, I think schools should have 2 science classes during the time when they teach about evolution, 1 for evolution and 1 for creationism.
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Flying spaghetti monsters anyone?
The problem is that if you choose to believe in a god/religion you shouldn't be forced to believe every single part of it, science allows for ideas and theories that are not set in stone - a scientist is happy to be proven wrong and theories such as darwins theory of evolution are being modified all the time to include new evidence and become as accurate as possible.
Creation can be taught in schools as part of religous education, it CANNOT be taught in the same way as evolution because it has no scientific basis only belief that is down to each individual.
creationism isn't a science, there is no evidence.
evolution is supported every step of the way from fossil records, comparison of species living today, microbiology, embryoligy and many other sciences.
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Creationism is a farce. Science has given us a pretty accurate indication of what really has happened over the course of the universe's several billion year old existence.
I believe a higher being put it into motion, though. I'm not sure it's the Christian god, anymore. I know that there's something higher. There's too many signs of intelligent design. I'm still considering myself a Christian, but I have a lot of thinking to do on the subject to be sure.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255664 is a reply to message #255606] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 09:10 |
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AoBfrost
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hey guys, not to back out or anything, but I think we all need to stop posting in this thread and let others post their opinion, gamemodding wanted this to be a fun share your idea thread, but I think we all contributed and pushed this thread into more of a debate which caused others to not post, so with that said, I will no longer post here, just so the topic can go back to it's original purpose.
AoBfrost
| Scrin wrote on Fri, 05 October 2007 12:19 |
''whoa im the photoshop''
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KANE LIVES!!!
[Updated on: Wed, 25 April 2007 09:10] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255668 is a reply to message #255661] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 09:18 |
MexPirate
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| AoBfrost wrote on Wed, 25 April 2007 08:59 |
Well, when i meant a science class, I meant more like the choice of which they want to learn of how the earth was made, creation or bigband/evolution, stating it as science class just meant sitting in one rather than the other during the normal class time.
Evolution isnt fully supported like you claim, sure it seems to make sense, but theres always missing species to complete this and that step, such as where are the mising links? No one has ever found one, if one was found, evolution would be more reputable, but i for one just take it as knowledge, but not belief. You cant go back in time for have text to show evolution is real, but the christains and catholics have text in which they believe is true, so like i said, we have evidence of evolution, which may make it true, while christains have their own faith and belief which also adds to show how the world may have been made, I'm not saying "I'm right, your wrong" but I am just stating what i believe is to be true.
You say choosing to belive in religion doesnt mean you must belive it all, but if you truley say your christain/catholic then obviously you do belive everything your religion has to offer you, or else you wouldnt call yourself these things, you'd be more of a person who doesnt belive, yet has family/goes to church that is christain/catholic.
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Nice class - God did it, the end. Evolution is infinately more complicated. Also you are forgetting the other options, from your argument any alternative theories (such as flying spaghetti monsterism) should also be taught at schools? Not forgetting that to do that would require more classrooms, teachers and tbh most kids would take the easy option just because they would get 100% on the creationism exam.
What missing links? everything that forms part of the theory of evolution is by it's very nature supported by huge scientific evidence. If you are reffering to the evoloution of humans current evidence suggests that we split off the evoloutionary ladder from chimps/bonobos only around 5 million years ago (so although we are 98-99% genetically similar we are not evolved FROM chimps). There are records of various extinct primates, the one believed to be out closest relative is detailed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus
Evolution is NOT belief, or else it couldn't be adapted.
You canot physically go back in time, but you can look at evidence of life in the past and embryoligy demonstrates evolution - did you know that as an embryo develops it looks the same as all the rest (a ball shaped blastula followed by gastrula - believed to be the form of the earliest multicellular life, other evidence supports this) as the embryo develops it starts to differentiate following evolution as shown:
The most basic animals are on the left, you can see how they are all similar at the ealier stages and that groups of animals (fish, reptiles & birds, mammals) all look similar at the second stage before developing the diversity brought about by evolution.
A book (however important) written without evidence does not simply become evidence.
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then obviously you do belive everything your religion has to offer you
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why obviously - many people consider themselves to be a follower of a religion but choose to make their own mind up on certain things based upon their own experience and evidence.
It's a mexican pirate .... F*ck a dog by Blink 182
[Updated on: Wed, 25 April 2007 09:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255671 is a reply to message #255606] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 09:38 |
fl00d3d
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Of all places to ask a heavy question, you chose the Renegade forums LOL!
Alright, lets throw another crazy man's opinions into this thread, shall we?
I grew up Christian (non-denominational, which basically means 'generic'). I went to church every single sunday of my entire childhood - my dad was an elder of the church - and I was forced to wear a tie every week or I'd get in trouble. That's how religious I was, just to build some imagery.
After I grew up a little, went into the military and got exposed to more cultures and beliefs, starting learning more about myself, etc. my views started changing. I didn't want to be ignorant, so I felt it would be in my best interest to consider all options equally: a sort of fresh start.
It wasn't until I was about 22yrs old or so when I met my fiancee -- who ironically happened to be Wiccan. (Imagine our debates!) After years and years of thought and deliberation with my fiancee, we've both come to an acceptance of a slightly modified view of how I grew up and this is what it is.........and this is what *I* believe to be true:
I believe that there is one God, that it is the Christian God, that it is a trinity, and that Jesus was sent to save us from eternal damnation. That core Christian belief aside, I'm a very strange Christian........because I think that a lot of the Bible is exagerated or symbolic rather than literal, and I think a lot may have been lost in translations or when it was pieced together over the years.
I believe that the forces of nature (things like karma, survival of the fittest, evolution, etc.) are very real and are a part of our world whether the Christian Bible discusses it or not. I think there are a LOT of invisible forces surrounding our species and planet(s) that we don't know about and may quite possibly never know about. I also believe that it was probably designed this way.
The purpose of life? I can agree to "exist" - but from a Christian standpoint it's also to 'Serve the Lord's will'. I can see how people say that the sole purpose is to survive and/or evolve, but consider the fact that our minds are linear in regards to time ..... and so we see one event coming before the other and no other explaination. When life as we know it was first "created" (or as some believe, "spontaneously realized"), SOMETHING had to be the catalyst. Even science will confirm that to this day. We just don't know what. And I sure as hell am not going to insist that I know (other than what my faith in my religion tells me).
To take it one step further and expand on this topic, I think people need to start being a little more tolerant of other religions. There is so much hate in this world because of what other people believe. Take, for example, Christianity who spazzes out on people who don't convert and flood them with "you're going to burn in hell" propoganda. I know that Christianity says that you should try to 'save the lost' ... but I do not think its right to do anything more than 'plant the seed'. If they don't believe, who cares? You did your part - so stop flooding the seed with so much damn water.
Anyway, that's how I see things --and I conveniently broke things into nice proper paragraphs so people could quote and comment as desired.
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255672 is a reply to message #255606] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 09:41 |
fl00d3d
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Mex, you posted while I was posting - so I'd like to throw in there that although I *DO* believe in evolution, I don't think that humans evolved from bacteria or at the end of an evolutionary chain. I believe that they were an independent evolutionary chain.
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255673 is a reply to message #255653] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 09:42 |
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Nightma12
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| AoBfrost wrote on Wed, 25 April 2007 10:39 |
Well, you see theres a problem, I'm not aiming toward any of you individuals, but I say that if you belive that you are truley catholic/christain then why believe in the big bang when they contradict what you claim you are, if your truley christain/catholic then you belive God made you , and not the way crap science brings out today, all of these big bang theory's are just taught in schools because some dont want to learn about creation, so then others who might want to are disabled from the ability to learn about it, teaching only 1 veiwpoint in school is what then make kids believe thats how the world started, schools today dont even give the chance to teach creationism anymore, I think schools should have 2 science classes during the time when they teach about evolution, 1 for evolution and 1 for creationism.
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read my post... please explain to me how science + creationism contradict? they completely help each other
God CREATED everything we see today THOUGH the big bang. and about 7 days... a day is how long the earth takes to spin around once? however.. as there was no earth at this time, how exactly long was a day back then? it could be ample ammount of time
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255679 is a reply to message #255673] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 10:10 |
MexPirate
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please explain to me how science + creationism contradict? they completely help each other
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Science requires evidence.
Creationism requires belief.
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SOMETHING had to be the catalyst. Even science will confirm that to this day. We just don't know what.
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Scientific evidence at the moment points to on single occurance that produced basic amino acids, sugars fatty acids and nucleic acid bases (monomers - the basic building blocks of all life) - by recreating the conditions thought to exist on earth at the time and passing an electrical current through (to simulate an electrical storm that would have been common in that time period) it has been possible to create these monomers from inorganic material. The amino acids produced are random and not all of the possible combinations - however ALL life on the planet contains the same set of amino acids (hence the reasoning that life evolved from this point) other amino acids have been discovered off of the planet.
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To take it one step further and expand on this topic, I think people need to start being a little more tolerant of other religions.
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rAMEN - half the reason I dislike religion is because of the extent it is used as an excuse for humans to commit horrific acts - this control of religion and links to whoever was in power at the time throughout history is another reason why I personally cannot trust the teachings of any religion.
It's a mexican pirate .... F*ck a dog by Blink 182
[Updated on: Wed, 25 April 2007 10:11] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255681 is a reply to message #255606] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 10:12 |
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Jecht
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To begin, I devoted myself to Christ this year. Therefore I'm a Christian.
To begin my lack of faith on the Big Bang:
Scientists all agree that an equivalent exchange of matter is the only way something can form correct? How in the world then can you explain a monumental explosion happening for no reason caused by nothing then? For that matter, how can you explain the creation of the nothingness of space prior to the Big Bang?
Creationism and Religion:
MexPirate stated that there is no evidence to the basis of Christianity. I disagree, you see there is historical records of religion. These are ancient testimonials that perhaps millions of people read everyday. You see the Bible in my eyes is evidence because it was written by several men over the course of centuries. It's a collection of books with authors that had the word of God spoken to them. What would be the gain in creating this literature? None that is foreseeable, save for the fact that religion could be used to control the masses on a spiritual level. That makes no sense in the case of Christianity though
Christianity is the belief that the Lord Jesus sacrificed himself in order to pay for our sins. My church teaches that you go to Heaven by having belief that Christ died for your sins, and the degree of your reward is based on the time you spent on Earth. Therefore, my purpose for living is to ensure my eternal salvation, and the degree of the reward that follows. For more information consult the Books of Luke and Revelations in the New Testament. They depict how your name can be added to "The Book of Life."
Evolution:
There is nothing in the Bible that states that Evolution is false, even in the Book of Genesis in the Old Testament. The Book of Genesis doesn't even give any evidence to where the Garden of Eden was, therefore one could surmise that it very well have been the entire earth for all we know. Also, time to God may be different from that of man. Therefore a day to him could very well be Thousands upon millions of years to us (That is not a Church teaching, that is my own inference.). It is a well known fact that Micro-Evolution is true. Even the most devout religious types must see that or they're far too blinded by explicit words. There have been studies done with Salamanders in California that back this argument up. Although I find myself sourceless, I can explain this process from a lecture I heard in a college-level biology course:
A species of Salamanders had its population split on opposite sides of a valley. They had repeatedly mated and passed genes from one generation to another. When the two divisions of Salamanders re-merged in terms of area at the end of the valley, the two were unable to mate with each other. They had formed an entirely new species.
What is the meaning of life?
To be honest, man will never know. It's far too above our heads to comprehend. We're like cats in front of a closed door. We know that it opens, we just can't do it for ourselves.
[Updated on: Wed, 25 April 2007 10:12] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255687 is a reply to message #255681] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 10:35 |
MexPirate
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| gbull wrote on Wed, 25 April 2007 14:12 |
How in the world then can you explain a monumental explosion happening for no reason caused by nothing then? For that matter, how can you explain the creation of the nothingness of space prior to the Big Bang?
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I do not believe anyone can, this is one of many questions that science will never be able to answer - personally I feel that puts a black whole over what caused the big bang not the theory itself.
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MexPirate stated that there is no evidence to the basis of Christianity. I disagree, you see there is historical records of religion. These are ancient testimonials that perhaps millions of people read everyday. You see the Bible in my eyes is evidence because it was written by several men over the course of centuries. It's a collection of books with authors that had the word of God spoken to them. What would be the gain in creating this literature? None that is foreseeable, save for the fact that religion could be used to control the masses on a spiritual level. That makes no sense in the case of Christianity though
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I think I said no evidence for creationism/intelligent design but either way a scientist would argue that those historical records have been created by humans (and kept under the control of humans for many years) If someone was to say that God spoke to them today, nobody would believe them and their is no EVIDENCE to proove that God did in fact speak to them other than their written word. Add in the fact that these books will have been translated added to and edited many times by humans. Of course this doesn't disprove anything written in them, it just means SCIENTIFICALLY they cannot be relied on as EVIDENCE.
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My church teaches that you go to Heaven by having belief that Christ died for your sins, and the degree of your reward is based on the time you spent on Earth. Therefore, my purpose for living is to ensure my eternal salvation, and the degree of the reward that follows.
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This is something that above all else seems most "un-christian" to me. On that basis the following groups of people would be excluded from heaven:
stillborn babies, athiests who spend their entire life doing charitable work, poor uneducated people who are never taught about christianity, anyone out of the billions of people born before christ.
But a 100 year old convicted murderer, rapist and paedophile would get in with a big reward as long as he acknowledged jesus and christianity before his death.
It strikes me that this concept encourages people to spread the word and save people by teaching them about christianity, something that has obvious benefits for the religion.
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There is nothing in the Bible that states that Evolution is false
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I think almost universally religions accept that natural selection exists - it can be seen today and the continual evolution of life is supported by pretty much everyone. The divide comes in as to the origin of species and planet - many people are not comfortable with or refuse to believe that humans evolved from the same place as everything else.
P.S. It is not my intention to offend, evolution forms tha backbone of the degree I am currently studying for, I am stating my views and I am always keen to be challenged and hear alternative theories (and then debate them  ).
It's a mexican pirate .... F*ck a dog by Blink 182
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255693 is a reply to message #255606] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 11:29 |
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Jecht
Messages: 3156
Registered: September 2004
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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This is something that above all else seems most "un-christian" to me. On that basis the following groups of people would be excluded from heaven:
stillborn babies, athiests who spend their entire life doing charitable work, poor uneducated people who are never taught about christianity, anyone out of the billions of people born before christ.
But a 100 year old convicted murderer, rapist and paedophile would get in with a big reward as long as he acknowledged jesus and christianity before his death.
It strikes me that this concept encourages people to spread the word and save people by teaching them about christianity, something that has obvious benefits for the religion.
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Sorry to stray from the topic yet again warranto, but I don't want anyone getting the wrong ideas.
For the first verse, you would have to consult a pastor on that subject, as I don't know about those cases.
Toward the 100 year old convicted murderer, rapist, and pedophile: Yes, indeed he can. Acknowledgment isn't enough though. Pastors can explain it better than I can. So I invite you to listen to the sermon "Death...Then What?" in the One Minute After you Die series that my church posted on their website. You don't have to download anything, it's streaming with quicktime. Not sure about other media players:
http://www.kentwoodcommunitychurch.com/media/Audio/Death_ThenWhat.mp3
The follow-up sermon hasn't been posted yet. It's interesting even if you are an atheist. Let me tell you though, according to the teachings I've learned, your reward is directly connected with what you've done on earth. So even if you do let Christ into your heart and you've done a lot of bad things in your life, you won't get a very good heavenly reward.
That's the end of my little speech. Unless you have any other questions I won't stray this topic off any further.
[Updated on: Wed, 25 April 2007 11:34] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The meaning of life? [message #255695 is a reply to message #255687] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 11:55 |
fl00d3d
Messages: 1107
Registered: August 2003
Location: Iowa, USA
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Viva la Resistance! |
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(1) gbull: congratulations on your rebirth. I won't get cheesy on you, but acceptance really opens your eyes to the world around you and I think you'll find a much more fulfilling and enjoyable life.
(2) gbull: I think you're wrong about the Garden of Eden theory - though I see where you were going with it. It says in the Bible that the Garden was locked so that no man may ever enter again and protected by angels. Basically we were thrown out and told we could never enter it again ... so that would suggest its not the entire planet, because obviously we already cover it. It's probably somewhere near Mesopotamia or in some deep jungle not yet explored.
(3) Mex: Saying that the Bible cannot be used as 'evidence' is kinda biased; and I say this because I am to understand you're not religious or don't believe in the Bible and are thus discrediting it in order to make it better fit with your beliefs. The fact of the matter is that ANY historical document (whether diaries, the Bible, simple notes, or even legends as they are passed down) is written by man and no one else .... and ANY historical document is handled by man, translated by man, etc. Though I do agree the Bible should not be taken literally in many circumstances and may quite possibly have translation errors, I do see it as a holy and perfect book that has never been proven wrong and therefore should not be so quickly dismissed. You can even look at books such as Numbers which go as far as to detail lineage by actual figures/statistics. I highly doubt some random guy thought it'd be cool to write a book about lineage back then - find some Christian reference to it - and stick in the Bible as an 'extra read'. It obviously has some sort of value, though it is incredibly boring to read.
(4)
| MexPirate wrote on Wed, 25 April 2007 13:35 |
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My church teaches that you go to Heaven by having belief that Christ died for your sins, and the degree of your reward is based on the time you spent on Earth. Therefore, my purpose for living is to ensure my eternal salvation, and the degree of the reward that follows.
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This is something that above all else seems most "un-christian" to me. On that basis the following groups of people would be excluded from heaven:
stillborn babies, athiests who spend their entire life doing charitable work, poor uneducated people who are never taught about christianity, anyone out of the billions of people born before christ.
But a 100 year old convicted murderer, rapist and paedophile would get in with a big reward as long as he acknowledged jesus and christianity before his death.
It strikes me that this concept encourages people to spread the word and save people by teaching them about christianity, something that has obvious benefits for the religion.
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This is correct, and here is why (all from the Bible):
--Salvation is the key to heaven, not deeds. Since God sees ALL sins as equal (ie. right or wrong), as far as salvation is concerend you're either with sin or without sin and therefore condemned to hell. The only way to circumvent that fate is through the sacrifice of Jesus who was without sin.
--The Bible also states that if you are not afforded the opportunity to make the decision you are not held accountable. That doesn't mean "if I dont go to church - then I dont have to get wrapped up and it and I'm safe". It means if you're stuck in the jungle or if you're a newborn that can't intelligently understand the world around you - you are exempt from this damnation.
--It also mentions that salvation, PRE-Jesus, was different: it was having faith that Christ would come and that you were born into sin.
--Since murderers, rapists, and pedophiles are all sinners - just the same as "Joe across the street" who THINKS about how nice it would be to have his neighbors house" - all end up in hell just the same. Petty sin and extravegant sin are all the same in God's eyes. And no, just saying "I believe in God" before you die on your deathbed is not enough. They'd have to truely believe and accept it.
--With all that being said, Christians should not be running around saying "fine, burn in hell" or "Well I guess that just means you're going to burn in hell for eternity"; and many do. Plant the seed, say your prayer, and if they ask for help - help them. Otherwise, "have a nice day"...
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