Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Truth about 9/11...
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| Re: Truth about 9/11... [message #210253 is a reply to message #210174] |
Fri, 28 July 2006 20:17   |
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Fabian
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| Crimson wrote on Fri, 28 July 2006 13:11 |
| Feetseek wrote on Thu, 27 July 2006 21:21 |
About the plance that went for the pentagon-- did you actually hit it? I might have been just a clever plan to persuade people to believe that our country was being attacked by foreigners, could it not???
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My boyfriend (Blazer on here) was in a high-rise condo near Washington, DC, on 9/11. He saw, with his own eyes, the plane right before it hit the Pentagon. It passed so closely to him that he could almost see the passengers inside if the plane weren't going so fast.
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See... no matter how convincing movies are, they can't compete with hundreds of eyewitnesses all saying they saw the same thing. I used to somewhat buy Loose Change, but I thought about it long and hard and now I'm back on the "it was an attack" bandwagon. I think some videos should be released to put some stuff to rest.
However, I don't think "why would we hurt our own country?!" is a valid argument. Don't be so naive to think our goverment is completely open to us and wouldn't do something drastic for gain in the higher powers.
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| Re: Truth about 9/11... [message #210324 is a reply to message #210253] |
Sat, 29 July 2006 10:37 |
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cheesesoda
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| mjfabian wrote on Fri, 28 July 2006 23:17 |
However, I don't think "why would we hurt our own country?!" is a valid argument. Don't be so naive to think our goverment is completely open to us and wouldn't do something drastic for gain in the higher powers.
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Like December 7, 1941? War was inevitable, but America was still too isolationist for their own good. We needed to be attacked before the public would go for this whole war thing.
Yes, it was the Japanese who attacked us, but that doesn't mean we didn't know about it. Japanese carriers were given the order of strict radio silence. That silence was broken, intercepted, decyphered, and given to higher US military officials, and rumor has it that it even reached the ears of FDR. I don't think that it fell on deaf ears, either. I believe that officials let it slide due to the fact that they wanted in the war.
I know that the government allows for things like this to happen, but I don't think that they're the ones to actually orchestrate the whole attacks. That's taking it a little too far and is treasonous.
whoa.
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| Re: Truth about 9/11... [message #211091 is a reply to message #210011] |
Thu, 03 August 2006 03:52 |
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unknownLogan
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| xptek wrote on Fri, 28 July 2006 01:11 |
None of these stupid videos can ever provide a valid reason for the US government wanting to kill 2,700 people.
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ffs.
55000 americans were died horribly in vietnam for no purpose. and ur saying that the us don't kill 2700 civilians for their capitalist goals?
remember that 12-13 yrs old kids somehow get a weapon and kill their classmates without any doubts in the us.
the us do what they want. and unfortunately there's noone capable to stop this. because that's in their blood.
time to wake up for u.
Sorry for my English.
"Peace in the country, peace in the world."
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| Re: Truth about 9/11... [message #211096 is a reply to message #211091] |
Thu, 03 August 2006 05:03 |
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Sniper_De7
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| unknownLogan wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 05:52 |
| xptek wrote on Fri, 28 July 2006 01:11 |
None of these stupid videos can ever provide a valid reason for the US government wanting to kill 2,700 people.
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ffs.
55000 americans were died horribly in vietnam for no purpose. and ur saying that the us don't kill 2700 civilians for their capitalist goals?
remember that 12-13 yrs old kids somehow get a weapon and kill their classmates without any doubts in the us.
the us do what they want. and unfortunately there's noone capable to stop this. because that's in their blood.
time to wake up for u.
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Vietnam wasn't for "no purpose". The french scurried away and we believed that countries would follow communism. Learn your history, you need to. Upon that since what you said was completely false, yes, I do believe the U.S wouldn't hurt their economy least of all doing it by killing 2700 civilians. What would be the incentive there, captain Logic?
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remember that 12-13 yrs old kids somehow get a weapon and kill their classmates without any doubts in the us.
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How does this hold any bearing whatsoever? Unintelligent, deranged kids, who probably didn't get enough support from their parents or they didn't tell them right or wrong is something completely different than educated adults making decisions. Besides, There are 12-13 old kids that go to war, if you think that they're somehow incapable of doing violence at that age, you are way off the marker. Hell, some kids even blow themselves up for "the cause".
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the us do what they want. and unfortunately there's noone capable to stop this. because that's in their blood.
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No, the US don't do what they want. Because there ARE people capable of stopping us, even though we aren't doing anything wrong. "because that's in their blood" For one thing, all americans are not the same and we do not all agree with decisions and never will for whatever reasons. Same goes with ANY large country. So thanks for the stereotype and could you please use logic next time? Let me ask, are you dutch?
This is what it breaks down to.
1. You believe the US killed 2700 civilians so that they can damage their own economy for what?
So we could lose billions of dollars? Well that's a good reason Cpt. Logic.
Or 2. You could believe that Terrorists hijacked a commercial plane (Which, would probably have seemed the least-likely thing to have happened) not to mention the fact that we wouldn't have thought something like this would have happened meaning our guard would have been down and much more possible to have hijacked our planes. Note also that they went for the WTC which would damage our economy while killing 2700 civilians. I'd say that would be a clear-cut terrorist thinking. They do billions of damage losing each commercial airplane but they also kill 2700 civilians, hurt our economy by destroying the WTC and attempt to run into the pentagon.
I mean didn't they just declare a holy war on israel anyways? Not really israel, but jews in particular. The very same people wish to exterminate every last jew, ADMITEDLY. Does this sound like someone we know? I know your history isn't that great but perhaps you know about Hitler?
If you're going to make such outlandish comments would you PLEASE just like re-read what you are going to say and ask yourself if this makes any sense because someone shouldn't be doing this for you.
Open YOUR eyes and stop following the propaganda of your country and think for yourself. Conformist.
Oderint, dum metuant.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
[Updated on: Thu, 03 August 2006 05:04] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Truth about 9/11... [message #211115 is a reply to message #210174] |
Thu, 03 August 2006 08:09 |
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U927
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| Crimson wrote on Fri, 28 July 2006 13:11 |
| Feetseek wrote on Thu, 27 July 2006 21:21 |
About the plance that went for the pentagon-- did you actually hit it? I might have been just a clever plan to persuade people to believe that our country was being attacked by foreigners, could it not???
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My boyfriend (Blazer on here) was in a high-rise condo near Washington, DC, on 9/11. He saw, with his own eyes, the plane right before it hit the Pentagon. It passed so closely to him that he could almost see the passengers inside if the plane weren't going so fast.
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WTF HE WUZ PAYD OFF BAI TEH GUVRNMENT 2 LEI 2 U ADN ALL OF US WTFOMGBBQLOL
It would be nice if they released more footage of the airplane hitting, though. As I recall, there was more than just one camera watching; there were also cameras on the interstate and on top of hotels and such, but the FBI all took themand haven't released them as of yet.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle
8-Bit Theatre. The power of evil compels you!
[Updated on: Thu, 03 August 2006 08:09] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Truth about 9/11... [message #211171 is a reply to message #211096] |
Thu, 03 August 2006 13:50 |
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unknownLogan
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| Sniper_De7 wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 07:03 |
| unknownLogan wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 05:52 |
| xptek wrote on Fri, 28 July 2006 01:11 |
None of these stupid videos can ever provide a valid reason for the US government wanting to kill 2,700 people.
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ffs.
55000 americans were died horribly in vietnam for no purpose. and ur saying that the us don't kill 2700 civilians for their capitalist goals?
remember that 12-13 yrs old kids somehow get a weapon and kill their classmates without any doubts in the us.
the us do what they want. and unfortunately there's noone capable to stop this. because that's in their blood.
time to wake up for u.
|
Vietnam wasn't for "no purpose". The french scurried away and we believed that countries would follow communism. Learn your history, you need to. Upon that since what you said was completely false, yes, I do believe the U.S wouldn't hurt their economy least of all doing it by killing 2700 civilians. What would be the incentive there, captain Logic?
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remember that 12-13 yrs old kids somehow get a weapon and kill their classmates without any doubts in the us.
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How does this hold any bearing whatsoever? Unintelligent, deranged kids, who probably didn't get enough support from their parents or they didn't tell them right or wrong is something completely different than educated adults making decisions. Besides, There are 12-13 old kids that go to war, if you think that they're somehow incapable of doing violence at that age, you are way off the marker. Hell, some kids even blow themselves up for "the cause".
| Quote: |
the us do what they want. and unfortunately there's noone capable to stop this. because that's in their blood.
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No, the US don't do what they want. Because there ARE people capable of stopping us, even though we aren't doing anything wrong. "because that's in their blood" For one thing, all americans are not the same and we do not all agree with decisions and never will for whatever reasons. Same goes with ANY large country. So thanks for the stereotype and could you please use logic next time? Let me ask, are you dutch?
This is what it breaks down to.
1. You believe the US killed 2700 civilians so that they can damage their own economy for what?
So we could lose billions of dollars? Well that's a good reason Cpt. Logic.
Or 2. You could believe that Terrorists hijacked a commercial plane (Which, would probably have seemed the least-likely thing to have happened) not to mention the fact that we wouldn't have thought something like this would have happened meaning our guard would have been down and much more possible to have hijacked our planes. Note also that they went for the WTC which would damage our economy while killing 2700 civilians. I'd say that would be a clear-cut terrorist thinking. They do billions of damage losing each commercial airplane but they also kill 2700 civilians, hurt our economy by destroying the WTC and attempt to run into the pentagon.
I mean didn't they just declare a holy war on israel anyways? Not really israel, but jews in particular. The very same people wish to exterminate every last jew, ADMITEDLY. Does this sound like someone we know? I know your history isn't that great but perhaps you know about Hitler?
If you're going to make such outlandish comments would you PLEASE just like re-read what you are going to say and ask yourself if this makes any sense because someone shouldn't be doing this for you.
Open YOUR eyes and stop following the propaganda of your country and think for yourself. Conformist.
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those are totally wrong, shallow, subjective, and cant be supported, EVER!
i told about the kids because i was trying to tell about the social situation of the us. but obviously, u didnt get that.
u cant get involved into another countries' business, and im not giving any reasons for that fact, because thats obvious. i hope u can get that.
middle east... motherland of the civilizations (i bet u didnt know that)... trust me, the disagreement is between arabs and israelis, not all of the jews. baghdat, damascus, jerusalem,... were found thousands of years ago, while there werent any european cities, and while there were no u.s. middle easterners are there for a very long time, and trust me theyve no hateful feelings, they belive in brotherhood, but israel is the one doing shit, and thats why theyre struggling against israel, but that is not against the whole jews on the planet. because theyre not europeans or americans (check the history of the social life in roman empire for more information). and theyre just defending themselves, because they were kicked out of their land. try to get that too.
btw im not dutch, im not european, and luckily im not american either.
please, tell me how can u damage the economy of a country like the us by destroying buildings, since there are billions(u know what billion is?) in process in the us economy? even kids dont believe that. that attack was just an excuse, to get to the middle east and afghanistan, and to the rich oil reserves. the 2nd greatest oil reserves are below kerkuk, the northeast of iraq. and obviously, u dont know that too. and accept that u totally messed up on that, didnt u?
ur miserable, illiterate, and obviosly n00b. go play generals.
Sorry for my English.
"Peace in the country, peace in the world."
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| Re: Truth about 9/11... [message #211194 is a reply to message #211171] |
Thu, 03 August 2006 16:21 |
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Sniper_De7
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| unknownLogan wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 15:50 |
those are totally wrong, shallow, subjective, and cant be supported, EVER!
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*what* is totally wrong? What parts? Would you care to tell me? What part is shallow? "Those"? Wow... What can't be supportive? There are words you need to add in your statement to make sense of it.
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i told about the kids because i was trying to tell about the social situation of the us. but obviously, u didnt get that.
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Why? What does that have anything to do with this? Like I said before, even if you were talking about the social situation of the US, which isn't it, it still has absolutely nothing to do with Bush orchestrating 911. Besides, you cannot judge a country on what few individuals do. Well you can, it'd just be stupid to.
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u cant get involved into another countries' business, and im not giving any reasons for that fact, because thats obvious. i hope u can get that.
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I have no idea of the point of this is, but by this brand of logic perhaps we shouldn't help Africa or any other countries. In fact, all we should have to worry about is ourselves, and that way, the people dying and the people who have no choice about how they wish to live, can just starve/be killed by their leaders.
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middle east... motherland of the civilizations (i bet u didnt know that)... trust me, the disagreement is between arabs and israelis, not all of the jews. baghdat, damascus, jerusalem,... were found thousands of years ago, while there werent any european cities, and while there were no u.s. middle easterners are there for a very long time, and trust me theyve no hateful feelings, they belive in brotherhood, but israel is the one doing shit, and thats why theyre struggling against israel, but that is not against the whole jews on the planet. because theyre not europeans or americans (check the history of the social life in roman empire for more information). and theyre just defending themselves, because they were kicked out of their land. try to get that too.
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http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=108542 Al-qaida, the terrorist organization really responsible for 911 calls for a holy war against Israel and says "It is Jihad for sake of Allah and will last until our religion prevails from Spain to Iraq" Spain to Iraq.. hmm Doesn't sound evil to me. Anyways, Israel has done pretty much everything asked of them from Arab nations and has even given them the land they wanted and yet still get attacked without provoking it.
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btw im not dutch, im not european, and luckily im not american either.
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The Americans and the Europeans dodged a bullet, then.
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please, tell me how can u damage the economy of a country like the us by destroying buildings, since there are billions(u know what billion is?) in process in the us economy? even kids dont believe that. that attack was just an excuse, to get to the middle east and afghanistan, and to the rich oil reserves. the 2nd greatest oil reserves are below kerkuk, the northeast of iraq. and obviously, u dont know that too. and accept that u totally messed up on that, didnt u?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks#Econ omic_aftermath I suggest reading that, or reading all of it if you wish. Note also that we have our own oil that we can produce in the U.S. and if we *really* wanted oil that badly, or needed it, then we could easily have done it here in the U.S.
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ur miserable, illiterate, and obviosly n00b. go play generals.
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How did anything I say portray me as anything "miserable?".
How did anything I say portray me as "illiterate"?
How does having this discussion have any bearing on how good I am at this game. Because the last time I checked if you were good at arguing it doesn't mean you're good at video games. Besides, what clans have YOU been in that were considered good? I was in gse, which was one of the best clans to have played (6v6+) How many clanwars have you played? Have you ever been in a clan? Or have you been playing in public CTF games since you bought this game with the first decade patch?
Oderint, dum metuant.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
[Updated on: Thu, 03 August 2006 16:22] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Truth about 9/11... [message #212460 is a reply to message #210009] |
Wed, 09 August 2006 11:51 |
appshot
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i agree with logan. Logan isn't an idiot. I believe the WTC was a conspiracy. And um... about those eyewitnesses. They were bribed. I saw this conspiracy video and they should this fbi guy giving a bribe to those eyewitnesses. I am not LIEING. I saw it but sadly i don't have the video. A uncle of mine lended it to me for 2 days. : /
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| Re: Truth about 9/11... [message #212505 is a reply to message #210009] |
Wed, 09 August 2006 17:11 |
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NukeIt15
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i agree with logan. Logan isn't an idiot. I believe the WTC was a conspiracy. And um... about those eyewitnesses. They were bribed. I saw this conspiracy video and they should this fbi guy giving a bribe to those eyewitnesses. I am not LIEING. I saw it but sadly i don't have the video. A uncle of mine lended it to me for 2 days. : /
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Right. You saw a video showing "damning" evidence of the FBI bribing eyewitnesses, but you oh-so-conveniently don't have access to the video and thus cannot post it as proof of your position. That shows you have something to hide- possibly that the video was faked and might be revealed for the forgery it is, but more likely because there was no such video in the first place. "I'm not lying" is a statement worth as much on the internet as a grain of sand is on a beach in the Baja. If you don't provide proof, you'd better have some damned good reasoning (or a blatantly obvious point) or all anybody will do is laugh at and berate you.
Not to mention that something as simple as proper grammar and spelling goes enormous lengths toward showing that you actually have something worth saying (it's an old story- if you don't care how you look, don't be surprised when no one else cares to look at you).
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: Truth about 9/11... [message #212524 is a reply to message #211133] |
Wed, 09 August 2006 18:21 |
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Dave Mason
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| Comrade wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 17:30 |
For the record, there were several snakes on that plane.
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You mother fuckin' what?
www.myspace.com/midas
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| Re: Truth about 9/11... [message #212530 is a reply to message #212460] |
Wed, 09 August 2006 18:42 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
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| appshot wrote on Wed, 09 August 2006 14:51 |
i agree with logan. Logan isn't an idiot. I believe the WTC was a conspiracy. And um... about those eyewitnesses. They were bribed. I saw this conspiracy video and they should this fbi guy giving a bribe to those eyewitnesses. I am not LIEING. I saw it but sadly i don't have the video. A uncle of mine lended it to me for 2 days. : /
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I'll be one of the first to say that I hate Maddox, but I can't disagree here: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons
Most specifically:
whoa.
[Updated on: Wed, 09 August 2006 18:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Truth about 9/11... [message #213085 is a reply to message #212460] |
Sun, 13 August 2006 17:36 |
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U927
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| appshot wrote on Wed, 09 August 2006 14:51 |
i agree with logan. Logan isn't an idiot. I believe the WTC was a conspiracy. And um... about those eyewitnesses. They were bribed. I saw this conspiracy video and they should this fbi guy giving a bribe to those eyewitnesses. I am not LIEING. I saw it but sadly i don't have the video. A uncle of mine lended it to me for 2 days. : /
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OH NOES! THAT MEANS THAT BLAZER, ONE OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM WHO SAW THE PLANE CRASH INTO THE PENTAGON, WAS ACTUALLY BRIBED!!!!
WTF CRIMSON, YOUR BOYFRIEND IS A LYING SCUMBAG, YOU SHOULD DUMP HIS ASS RIGHT THE FUCK NOW!
CAPS LOCK FTW
</sarcasm>
Isn't it funny that you can state these things, but you can't back them up? You claim you saw a video, but it's your "uncle's" video, so you can't show it to us. I can equally say that I saw video proof of the lost city of Atlantis rising from the depths, but unfortunately I lost it in my last hard drive format. But I'm telling you I saw it! Therefore it MUST be true!
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle
8-Bit Theatre. The power of evil compels you!
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| Re: Truth about 9/11... [message #213114 is a reply to message #210009] |
Sun, 13 August 2006 22:39 |
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Blazer
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If anyone is itnerested, I uploaded the photos and video that I took of the Pentagon on 9-11, as well as some I took from a close vantage point a few days later. They can be found Here.
These are pictures that I personally took. The capture time and date are in the EXIF data. The pictures were taken with a Sony Mavica MVC-CD1000, which records directly to CDR mini-discs.
I did not see the actual impact, as the Pentagon was located on the other side of my apartment building.
Lame ascii art alert:
__
/ \ Pentagon /
\__/ _________ cccccc< Plane
| *|me \
pics|* |
|_________|
From my apartment window (noted by "me" above). I saw the plane fly right by. It was very low and moving very fast (according to Radar reports it was going 500mph). I could actually see the people in the cockpit as well as passengers in the windows as it went by.
Shortly afterwards, I also saw the C130 cargo plane that was apparent sent to follow. Around the same time I heard reports on the local radio that people in the streets saw the cargo plane fly overhead.
At the time, even though seeing the plane flying low and fast, where planes never fly...for some reason it didn't occur to any of us that it was going to hit the Pentagon. I remember we were watching the news, my TV was right next to the window, and my then-girlfriend first noticed the plane out the window and pointed to it and said "What's that plane doing...it's flying so low...that's making me nervous". I got up and went to the window and watched it go by. At the time I just figured it was some low flying plane. I guess the things happening in New York seemed so far away, that we didn't make the connection. I guess we were still in shock over what was happening.
Once they announced on the news that the Pentagon was hit, we ran out to the living room and watched for a few minutes on the big screen TV. We were shocked to say the least. We questioned whether the muffled noise we had heard was the explosion. My roomate ran out the door and down the hall to a spot that has windows facing that way, and he came back and said that the Pentagon was on fire. We then all ran down the hall, and looked out the window along with several other building tennants. We took the pictures and video that I put online.
We then realized the full scope of what had happened, and how fortunate my then-girlfriend was. She was working as a contractor with the Pentagon rennovation project, and had she gone to work on time, she would have been in the very area that the plane hit and destroyed. She was late for work however from spending the night at my place. Had she not, she most likely would have been killed.
We went for a drive to try and get closer, but they roads were blocked off. A few days later we went to a nearby mall, that we knew had a good view of the Pentagon from the top level parking structure. Surprisingly the top level was not blocked off, except for some police tape to prevent people from going too close to the side facing the Pentagon. I then took the other pictures you see in my gallery.
That day pretty much changed Washington DC forever. No more can you just drive by the whitehouse, or walk near it. Concrete barricades are all over the place, constant reminders that we now have to be on guard against any thing that could happen at any time. For quite awhile, the highway near the pentagon had Humvees with missle launchers on top of them parked next to the road. Miltiary personnel were everywhere.
The worst thing about the whole event, was realizing that nobody is safe. Of course nobody ever was really safe, but until something like this happens you are lulled into a sense of security. Anytime we had seen something bad happen, it was in some other country or place, just images on the TV or newspaper. Things like that don't happen HERE...not to US...right? I suppose the terrorists goals were not only to kill and destroy, but to make us feel unsafe. In many ways, they succeeded on all counts. I think we feel much safer these days, since we have constant reminders of the steps being taken to keep this from happening again (the airport security checks, concrete barricades, etc). Even with those reminders of what could happen and how safe we are supposed to be, there are still fresh events, like the latest attempt to blow up planes with liquid explosives, to remind us that there are people who would like to destroy our way of life.
We can never forget that we are constantly in someones crosshairs (sometimes literally...fucking snipers - I was in the thick of that too but that's another story), and although security measures may seem like a pain in the ass, or in some cases an invasion of privacy, we have seen what can happen if we do not protect ourselves.
EDIT: I typed way more than I intended here. Sorry about that. I had just meant to upload the pictures that I took and post the link to them. I guess when you have been through an experience like that, its hard to just mention it in passing.
P.S. I realize my ASCII pentagon is not actually a pentagon. I did the best I could 
[Updated on: Sun, 13 August 2006 22:46] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Truth about 9/11... [message #217793 is a reply to message #210011] |
Wed, 06 September 2006 19:54 |
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| xptek wrote on Thu, 27 July 2006 12:11 |
None of these stupid videos can ever provide a valid reason for the US government wanting to kill 2,700 people.
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The goverment might not want to, but a certain gruop of people would love to, and no I'm not talking about Alquada.
Seriously people how can you fight a war on terrorism with all of your borders wide open!
The Goverment Has Failed All Of You.
Americas Founding Fathers Must Be Turing In Their Graves, As Well As Every Revolutionary, Every Soldier That Has Fought For This Great Country.
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