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| Re: The KOSs2 knows its shit [message #208403 is a reply to message #208394] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 11:14   |
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Well, they are right about older LCDs. If you have a newer one with a good enough refresh rate, you will have no problems achieving a higher FPS than what they're claiming. The idiots saying that all LCD screens will give you crap FPS have no clue what they're talking about. The ones mentioning refresh rate and response times affecting your FPS know what they're talking about, at least, for the most part.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: The KOSs2 knows its shit [message #208407 is a reply to message #208394] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 11:38 |
PackHunter
Messages: 487
Registered: November 2004
Location: Holland
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Monitors DO NOT influence FPS in ANY way. You might see some ghosting (blurring) on LCD screens with response times of over 10 miliseconds, but that won't show in a screenshot anyway.
If your FPS drops when games get larger, it's probebly your CPU, memory or bus speed that's the bottleneck, but not your videocard and definitly not your monitor.
[Updated on: Sun, 16 July 2006 11:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The KOSs2 knows its shit [message #208411 is a reply to message #208394] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 11:52 |
mision08
Messages: 525
Registered: May 2005
Location: Cattle Drive, Dallas to F...
Karma: 0
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Flat panel = office hardware /piece of furniture /TV screen for Disney. A true gamer would only use CRT, right? No one mentioned the graphic interface or chip-set. Is it an AGP, PCI-Express or God forbid PCI. What is the bandwidth, is it set to 4x or 8x or 16x? What about an over heating issue at the GPU or CPU? What sound card is he using?
Set the refresh rate to 75, resolution to 800 x 600. Set the video card drivers to run at max performance, lower the sound quality. Use Riva-tuner and CPU-z to monitor the temps, and bandwidth.
True Greatness, and just a good human
The best finish, closest finish in the 50 year history of Winston Cup
Freddy Krueger music video
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Johnny Cash & Bob Dylan A Thousand Miles Behind
Your own personal Jesus, someone to hear your prayers
Kyle's mom is a bitch
Johnny Cash Live @ San Quentin
Don't Y'all Think This Outlaw Bit's Done Got Out Of Hand?
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| Re: The KOSs2 knows its shit [message #208415 is a reply to message #208407] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 12:09 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| PackHunter wrote on Sun, 16 July 2006 20:38 |
Monitors DO NOT influence FPS in ANY way. You might see some ghosting (blurring) on LCD screens with response times of over 10 miliseconds, but that won't show in a screenshot anyway.
If your FPS drops when games get larger, it's probebly your CPU, memory or bus speed that's the bottleneck, but not your videocard and definitly not your monitor.
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Isn't it strange that the exact same computer gets a 60 FPS with CRT and gets FPS problems with a flat screen on it, about 20 seconds later?
So if it isn't the screen, then what is it?
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: The KOSs2 knows its shit [message #208417 is a reply to message #208416] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 12:33 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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Goztoe |
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| Xylaquin wrote on Sun, 16 July 2006 21:20 |
but why is there that difference? It's not like the graphics card has to do more work when providing output to an LCD monitor, is it?
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If you read the post, it links the difference to the refresh rate of the LCD screen, hence it would be the monitor which causes the difference.
Between brackets, I would be happy to read any topic in which Mr Pirate tried to help someone solve a problem.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Sun, 16 July 2006 12:34] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The KOSs2 knows its shit [message #208418 is a reply to message #208394] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 12:34 |
mision08
Messages: 525
Registered: May 2005
Location: Cattle Drive, Dallas to F...
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You act as if the monitor is sitting there like a bump on a log, illuminating a glow stick on the vid cards command. There is some serious work being done on the other side of that screen.
Moving so fast it'd make your head spin
Not only gamers, but professional photographers prefer CRT I bet most people, including myself (for a fact) don't have their monitor calibrated correctly.
True Greatness, and just a good human
The best finish, closest finish in the 50 year history of Winston Cup
Freddy Krueger music video
Harvester Of Sorrow, language of the mad
Johnny Cash & Bob Dylan A Thousand Miles Behind
Your own personal Jesus, someone to hear your prayers
Kyle's mom is a bitch
Johnny Cash Live @ San Quentin
Don't Y'all Think This Outlaw Bit's Done Got Out Of Hand?
[Updated on: Sun, 16 July 2006 12:41] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The KOSs2 knows its shit [message #208419 is a reply to message #208415] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 12:36 |
PackHunter
Messages: 487
Registered: November 2004
Location: Holland
Karma: 0
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I still think it's the cpu. AMD XP 2000+ I read somewhere? Not really state of the art, but should be able to pull out 60 frames per second on a 20 players server I think, allthough you don't got much to spare.
How about stuff running in the background? Also tanks ingame are heavy on your CPU, at least for the server. You can see that when looking at a sniper server and AOW server. It might be the same for clients, which would exdplain the difference from time to time.
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Flat panel = office hardware /piece of furniture /TV screen for Disney. A true gamer would only use CRT, right?
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I personally use the SyncMaster 930BF with response times of 2 ms, which is designed especially for hardcore gamers. Any LCD screen with response times of under 10 ms will do just fine though.
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| Re: The KOSs2 knows its shit [message #208421 is a reply to message #208420] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 12:41 |
PackHunter
Messages: 487
Registered: November 2004
Location: Holland
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| Goztow wrote on Sun, 16 July 2006 15:39 |
It's the exact same computer, just 20 seconds later andt he monitor changed. There's no reason suddenly lots of background programs would change. The only difference is the monitor being used.
Ofcourse the game ain't top but the difference is SO big that even a running virus scanner wouldn't make that much difference. 
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Ok, so maybe something strange is going on but I refuse to believe it is the monitor. If you don't got much to spare it doesn't take much to drop your fps like a brick.
[Updated on: Sun, 16 July 2006 12:43] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The KOSs2 knows its shit [message #208424 is a reply to message #208394] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 13:02 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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I know around 6 different players having this exact same problem, solved by the exact same solution. One of them was a brand new computer, 2 months ago, with a kickass GFX card, cpu, ...
Strange though that it's only at Ren. He could play BF2 at max settings. Must have to do with the way Ren handles its stuff. I'm not an expert.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: The KOSs2 knows its shit [message #208431 is a reply to message #208394] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 13:57 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7428
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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OMG WTF... that is pure insanity. I use dual 19" LCDs and I don't have any problems. The biggest problem I have is when a lot of scrolling happens in mIRC on my secondary monitor while I play, but that's a mIRC problem.
I run Renegade at 1280x1024 resolution and get 30-40 FPS in my full 40 player server. I have an AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1 gig of RAM, and my video card is a GeForce 4 Ti 4800SE with 128 MB of RAM. My main monitor is an NEC MultiSync LCD 1935NXM that I bought for $400 about a year and a half ago, and my other monitor is a ViewSonic ViewPanel VG191 that retailed for about $700 when I got it.
LCD ghosting is all about the Response time (lower is better), but nothing your monitor does can possibly affect your FPS in-game. The image is processed by the video card and sent complete to your monitor. If you have FPS problems, they are related to your video drivers and your hardware, NOT your monitor.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: The KOSs2 knows its shit [message #208443 is a reply to message #208394] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 15:40 |
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mrpirate
Messages: 1262
Registered: March 2003
Location: Ontario
Karma: 0
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Goztow: The reason the person was experiencing poor Renegade performance is because they had a slow computer. An Athlon XP 2000+ is 5 years old. If I remember correctly it also has 256 kb of L2 cache. He's also using a bottom of the line video card. That computer would have trouble pumping out more than 30ish FPS in a 20-player server (based on my experience with a P4 @ 2.6 GHz and a Radeon 9000 Pro). Changing the monitor to a CRT isn't going to make up for a slow computer. In fact it won't do anything.
As for LCD monitors: I'm currently using LG L1952TX monitor and according to my sysinfo file in the Renegade folder I averaged 91.4 FPS in the last game I played. Whether or not LCDs are less appropriate for gaming than CRTs are isn't of a lot of interest to me since I'm not really excited about having a monitor taking up all of the room on my desk.
[Updated on: Sun, 16 July 2006 16:12] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The KOSs2 knows its shit [message #208487 is a reply to message #208394] |
Mon, 17 July 2006 01:59 |
vloktboky
Messages: 290
Registered: February 2003
Location: Kentucky, USA
Karma: 0
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Frame rate can be influenced by many things. How much CPU time the application is being given by the OS. How much processing the game must complete for a single frame. Your CPU processing speed. How much RAM lies on your board (in case page memory must be used, adding to the CPU processing time). The fill rate and the triangle rate on your graphics card. Your bus line to your graphics card. How much VRAM your graphics card supports and how much is being used. Your monitor's refresh rate. Your monitor's resolution (which is also tied in to your pixel fill rate again). It doesn't strike me as odd that you could have experienced an improvement, but the monitor itself is not necessarily the only reason, if it is even one.
But hey, if you honestly have an improvement with the CRT over using the LCD, then use the CRT! Will everyone have the same result? Well, is it the only factor? Try this though: run the game in windowed mode and test both monitors. I'll bet you right now you won't see any difference, or at the very least the difference will be minute.
[Updated on: Mon, 17 July 2006 02:11] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The KOSs2 knows its shit [message #208492 is a reply to message #208445] |
Mon, 17 July 2006 02:44 |
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Scythar
Messages: 580
Registered: February 2003
Location: Finland
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| danpaul88 wrote on Sun, 16 July 2006 19:03 |
I stand by what I said in the tk2 forums: LCD monitors do not affect your FPS compared to a CRT. The only difference is they tend to have a slightly lower refresh rate, my two LCD monitors happen to run at 75 hertz, which is more than enough for gaming...
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Refresh rate doesn't matter much in LCD monitors, since they don't "flicker" like CRT monitors. In CRT, the flickering happens because the phosphor begins to dim immediately after being refreshed, and if you don't refresh it quickly enough, you can see a clear flicker when it turns bright again (this is why you want a fast refresh rate on CRT, prefereaby over 75Hz). LCD monitor's pixels, however, do not dim. Even if you have a 60Hz refresh rate on LCD, it won't flicker. The dot maintains its constant settings until told otherwise.
The only reason I can think of that could cause FPS drop is resolution. It might be he used 800*600 on CRT, and when he switched to LCD, it stays in the LCD's native resolution, probably 1024*768 or more. Bigger resolution = more GPU power required.
There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.
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| Re: The KOSs2 knows its shit [message #208526 is a reply to message #208394] |
Mon, 17 July 2006 10:06 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7428
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Once again, it is very simple. The image is created on the video card before being sent to the monitor. The monitor can not POSSIBLY impact the FPS number you see in your game. PERIOD. It CAN'T, can't, can't.
If you changed monitors, you changed SOMETHING ELSE, too.
I'm the bawss.
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