Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Global Warming: Katrina, Rita, Wilma: Whats next?
| Re: Global Warming: Katrina, Rita, Wilma: Whats next? [message #176731 is a reply to message #176674] |
Fri, 28 October 2005 11:29   |
runewood
Messages: 138
Registered: October 2005
Location: SE Michigan
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| NukeIt15 wrote on Thu, 27 October 2005 19:02 |
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Scientists at NASA and the National Snow and Ice Data Center, which have monitored the ice via satellites since 1978, say the total Arctic ice in 2005 will cover the smallest area since they started measuring.
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I'm hearing an awful lot of "Scientists Say" without any actual data attached. Without the numbers, the charts, the studies, what scientists SAY is just another bloody opinion. Nice try, but you have produced no proof.
Not only that, but your "references" come from one of the WORST possible sources- the news media. Just in case you weren't aware, the media has a tendency to publish only the most exciting stories, leaving opposing views that have less shock value in the dust. For an exaggerated example (but not as exaggerated as it might appear), which of these two report titles would more likely be seen on the front page of a newspaper?
A. GLOBAL WARMING DUE TO NATURAL CYCLE
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B. GLOBAL WARMING IS ALL OUR FAULT
B is more likely to catch a reader's attention and provoke a reaction, therefore B will be closer to the front page- you'd be lucky if you found A in a block below the editorials, as unexciting as it appears. The media caters to ratings and readership, not to balanced, well-delivered, factual information.
Go on- find a trustworthy source. Go dig up the images those satellites recorded, go get graphs depicting findings from examination of core samples (which would be an aid in determining the extent of previous warm/cold cycles), go get a few published reports (and I don't mean reports in the paper) complete with references and detailed experimental procedures. When you've got any of the above, that would be proof.
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Frankly i could care less, why should i do work because you want edv. I know we are screwed in 100-250 years so wtf do I care if you know it.
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man. Let history make it's own judgments."
"Maybe its not the destination that matters, but the journey."
"How many people does it take before its wrong? A thousand? Fifty thousand? A million?"
"Im not here to tell you how it is going to end, Im here to tell you how it is going to begin."
"Its not the end or even the beggining of the end, mearly the end of the beggining."
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end."
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| Re: Global Warming: Katrina, Rita, Wilma: Whats next? [message #176737 is a reply to message #176260] |
Fri, 28 October 2005 12:24 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
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Frankly i could care less, why should i do work because you want edv. I know we are screwed in 100-250 years so wtf do I care if you know it.
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1. You don't know. You think you know we are screwed in 100-250 years. You have no data to back that up as fact. Your unsupported opinion has no value as proof, as much as you might want to believe that it does.
2. If you could care less, you wouldn't be so upset about the whole affair.
3. Dismissing others as ignorant, presumably due to a lack of actual data supporting your own case, is not a very solid argument. The standard response to that is usually along the lines of "Well, if you care so little, shut up and go away."
4. The burden of proof in science is on the person challenging the status quo. That is a historical precedent that has been confirmed time and time again- Galileo, Newton, Einstein, etc. The reason why you should work to produce evidence supporting your claim is because it is an as-of-yet unproven hypothesis, not an established theory.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: Global Warming: Katrina, Rita, Wilma: Whats next? [message #176810 is a reply to message #176737] |
Sat, 29 October 2005 09:02 |
runewood
Messages: 138
Registered: October 2005
Location: SE Michigan
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The status quo is that global warming is believed, you are the one who doesn't believe it. Its like saying find me a site from a real scientist and only him saying 2 + 2 = 4. I dont need to prove it to you because it has been proven. If you feel that if i dont prove it to your lazzy self, that it isnt real, then too bad your grandkids are screwed.
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man. Let history make it's own judgments."
"Maybe its not the destination that matters, but the journey."
"How many people does it take before its wrong? A thousand? Fifty thousand? A million?"
"Im not here to tell you how it is going to end, Im here to tell you how it is going to begin."
"Its not the end or even the beggining of the end, mearly the end of the beggining."
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end."
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| Re: Global Warming: Katrina, Rita, Wilma: Whats next? [message #176813 is a reply to message #176260] |
Sat, 29 October 2005 10:04 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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You live in your own little world there, don't you? Nevermind, this is like arguing with a brick wall...
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: Global Warming: Katrina, Rita, Wilma: Whats next? [message #176854 is a reply to message #176813] |
Sat, 29 October 2005 15:17 |
runewood
Messages: 138
Registered: October 2005
Location: SE Michigan
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My world is earth, which one are you in? I guess that means I win. GW is real and we need to take action.
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man. Let history make it's own judgments."
"Maybe its not the destination that matters, but the journey."
"How many people does it take before its wrong? A thousand? Fifty thousand? A million?"
"Im not here to tell you how it is going to end, Im here to tell you how it is going to begin."
"Its not the end or even the beggining of the end, mearly the end of the beggining."
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end."
[Updated on: Sat, 29 October 2005 15:18] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Global Warming: Katrina, Rita, Wilma: Whats next? [message #176885 is a reply to message #176260] |
Sat, 29 October 2005 18:03 |
runewood
Messages: 138
Registered: October 2005
Location: SE Michigan
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Tell you what. If you can prove that the english lang exisists, the internet exists, i have a key bord, Bush is the president and that 2 + 2 = 4 with scientific evidence, from experts not anything else, I will prove global warming ok?
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/newton/askasci/1995/environ/EN V189.HTM
http://www.nrdc.org/globalWarming/qthinice.asp
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man. Let history make it's own judgments."
"Maybe its not the destination that matters, but the journey."
"How many people does it take before its wrong? A thousand? Fifty thousand? A million?"
"Im not here to tell you how it is going to end, Im here to tell you how it is going to begin."
"Its not the end or even the beggining of the end, mearly the end of the beggining."
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end."
[Updated on: Sat, 29 October 2005 18:06] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Global Warming: Katrina, Rita, Wilma: Whats next? [message #176982 is a reply to message #176260] |
Sun, 30 October 2005 11:37 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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Good, so now we've established that polar ice caps are shrinking...
...so where is the evidence links shrinking polar ice caps to humans? How do we know that the polar ice caps aren't shrinking because of some completely natural phenomenon?
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Tell you what. If you can prove that the english lang exisists, the internet exists, i have a key bord, Bush is the president and that 2 + 2 = 4 with scientific evidence, from experts not anything else, I will prove global warming ok?
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Against my better judgement, I'm going to answer that. Let's set up a series of experiments to determine whether any of the above are actually true:
English: Read this page. Cross-reference with the Oxford English Dictionary and the Miriam-Webster English Dictionary and Thesaurus. You will note that all of the properly spelled words on this page coincide with those found in the above volumes. You will aslo note that all the properly typed sentences obey the grammar rules of the English language, and that these rules are not identical to those of any other language. Therefore, English is a language and we are using it.
The Internet: This is the easiest one. We are using the Internet to communicate. You can see, through your Graphical User Interface, that you are loading this page from the Internet, typing words and phrases into the post box, and sending information back over the Internet to be stored on the server as a post. I can then view that post, using my own GUI, and respond to it, and you and every other person using the Internet can see and read it. Therefore, the Internet exists and we are using it.
Keyboard: We have no way of proving you have a keyboard. I can think of two useable alternatives to the keyboard off the top of my head, those being voice-recognition typing software and an on-screen keyboard, which can be operated with an appropriately configured pointing device, such as a mouse. However, you are most certainly using either one of the above, or a keyboard. You are entering text, or having someone else enter text for you, therefore you must have some way of entering text into your computer via manual input.
Bush: While there are a small number of people who still claim Bush is not the president, there is ample evidence indicating that he is. Dick Cheney, who is the President of the Senate, the position reserved for the Vice President of the United States, was his running mate in both bids for that office. He is the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, as evidenced by the use of military power overseas (which he ordered, and Congress approved). Furthermore, he recieved more than the required number of electoral votes in the presidential elections of 2000 and 2004, and was sworn into office in front of Congress, on the steps of the Capitol building, according to tradition. He gives a State of the Union address each year, a duty reserved for the President of the United States. And lastly, but not least, the man in office is certainly George W Bush, because he may be identified by any of his myriad forms of ID. Therefore, the man serving as the President of the United States is, in fact, George W Bush, and George W Bush serves as the President of the United States.
2+2=4:This is a mathematic fact, assuming that we are using Base 10 (and not, for example, binary, in which those numerals are not used and "2" is denoted by "10"). It may be proved using the proof formula, the details of which escape me. It may ALSO be proved by a simple visual experiment:
-Pick up four pennies, the coin representing $0.01 of United States currency.
-Place two pennies to your right, and two to your left.
-Move the two groups of two pennies together in front of you.
-Count them: Two pennies plus two pennies equals four pennies, or $0.04 US.
This experiment may be reproduced using ANY four items- just be aware that the value of those four items when put together will not necessarily equal $0.04 US. Therefore, 2+2=4.
You are using fallacious logic. These are accepted facts. "Experts" are not needed to prove them; they may be tested by ANYONE, and EVERYONE will reach the same conclusion after considering all of the available evidence and applying logic and reason.
The CAUSE of Global Warming is NOT an accepted fact. Every person in the world cannot put together warming trends and melting ice caps and everything else and know that humans casued it. There is insufficient evidence to prove that claim; it is therefore UNTESTABLE, and UNPROVEABLE. It does not matter how many people believe it; unless it can be tested and proved it is not fact.
Do we know that there is an effect known as Global Warming? Yes, we do. That much can be proven by the aforementioned receding ice caps, rising global temeperatures, increased number of tropical cyclones, and so forth.
Do we know WHAT CAUSES Global Warming? No, we do not. We have isolated and broken bits of information that point to POSSIBLE causes. We know that the Earth has gone through previous cycles of warming and cooling by examining ice core samples and layers of sediment, looking at the paths of glaciers that melted away millenia ago, and so on. We DO NOT have ANY connection between ANY of the effects of Global Warming and the actions of humans. NONE. We can guess that Global Warming might be caused by humans, or at least contributed to by them, because of events such as the depletion of the ozone layer, deforestation, and so forth. But we do not yet have any evidence that proves a connection between those things and Global Warming (though logic and reason alone do tend to indicate that there ought to be a connection there).
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: Global Warming: Katrina, Rita, Wilma: Whats next? [message #177006 is a reply to message #177001] |
Sun, 30 October 2005 14:16 |
runewood
Messages: 138
Registered: October 2005
Location: SE Michigan
Karma: 0
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Im not saying WE are causing it. Im saying that it IS happening. What I am saying is wtf do we do about it.
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man. Let history make it's own judgments."
"Maybe its not the destination that matters, but the journey."
"How many people does it take before its wrong? A thousand? Fifty thousand? A million?"
"Im not here to tell you how it is going to end, Im here to tell you how it is going to begin."
"Its not the end or even the beggining of the end, mearly the end of the beggining."
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end."
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| Re: Global Warming: Katrina, Rita, Wilma: Whats next? [message #177203 is a reply to message #176709] |
Tue, 01 November 2005 08:21 |
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Renerage
Messages: 1223
Registered: May 2005
Location: Hamilton ON, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| DJM wrote on Fri, 28 October 2005 10:15 |
Interesting post Cheekay, which forums did you steal it from?
And please kiddo,
USE THE FREAKING SPELL CHECK BUTTON!
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Yes I know i should have used the spell-check button but oh well, ill fix that post.
and i didnt steal it from anywhere. Any connections to other forums are completey coincidental.
Btw, i may not like you much, but i noticed you took a break, so now ill say:
Welcome Back.
A pissed off noob Once said:
I DESLIKE YOU!
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| Re: Global Warming: Katrina, Rita, Wilma: Whats next? [message #177261 is a reply to message #177001] |
Tue, 01 November 2005 14:21 |
God of Death
Messages: 59
Registered: January 2005
Location: Omnipresent
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Man, I said that like twelve posts ago.
| God of Death wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 20:19 |
| runewood wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 13:36 |
| j4S[p |
wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 19:36]
Btw, Global Warming is a theory - it is not proven.
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Tell that to the people who live near the icecaps that are melting at an amazing rate.
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Actually I have >>real<< evidence contrary, though they do admit to warming trend, which I think everyone one agrees to. http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1234998
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You can call me God
[Updated on: Tue, 01 November 2005 14:22] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Global Warming: Katrina, Rita, Wilma: Whats next? [message #177267 is a reply to message #177261] |
Tue, 01 November 2005 15:15 |
runewood
Messages: 138
Registered: October 2005
Location: SE Michigan
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Maybe Greenland is having a cool year.
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man. Let history make it's own judgments."
"Maybe its not the destination that matters, but the journey."
"How many people does it take before its wrong? A thousand? Fifty thousand? A million?"
"Im not here to tell you how it is going to end, Im here to tell you how it is going to begin."
"Its not the end or even the beggining of the end, mearly the end of the beggining."
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end."
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| Re: Global Warming: Katrina, Rita, Wilma: Whats next? [message #177494 is a reply to message #177294] |
Wed, 02 November 2005 14:49 |
runewood
Messages: 138
Registered: October 2005
Location: SE Michigan
Karma: 0
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Better a half wit then a no wit. 
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man. Let history make it's own judgments."
"Maybe its not the destination that matters, but the journey."
"How many people does it take before its wrong? A thousand? Fifty thousand? A million?"
"Im not here to tell you how it is going to end, Im here to tell you how it is going to begin."
"Its not the end or even the beggining of the end, mearly the end of the beggining."
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end."
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| Re: Global Warming: Katrina, Rita, Wilma: Whats next? [message #177568 is a reply to message #176260] |
Wed, 02 November 2005 19:37 |
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rm5248
Messages: 1156
Registered: November 2003
Location: USA
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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So anyways I don't really feel like looking through 2 pages of posts here, but I just saw this program on PBS about global warming. Here's some important data that I found out:
1. The 1 degree F rise in world temperature (in the past 50 years I think) has had a big impact on the world. Dry places are getting drier (midwest US). Summers are getting hotter. This leads to many people dieing. (Think summer '03 - Europe. Many people died from heat stroke.)
2. There's so much solar energy from the sun, that every day, we get enough solar power to supply the power needs for the entire planet for several years.
3. In some town in Conneticut, the entire cost for their recycling center's electricity bill is $7 a month. They get their electricity from Methane from an old dump nearby. ($7 a month is probably the cost of sending the bill out to be paid.)
4. This wasn't actually in the video, but in Alaska, houses in the southren part of the state have had to be moved because the permafrost that their foundation is on is actually melting, making the houses unstable.
5. Also, winters in Alaska are getting shorter. The snow is coming later and going earlier.
6. Glaciers in the Alps are dissapearing at the rate of 30 to 40 meters a year... 2x what they dissapeared at less then 200 years ago.
7. The Earth's climate can change very quickly. A rise in ocean levels could drastically change the climate to freezing cold or burning hot in under 10 years. That's not a long period of time.
My opinion: even if this is a natural cycle, we're not going to hurt it by polluting less.
Linky: http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=2121561
w00t?
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| Re: Global Warming: Katrina, Rita, Wilma: Whats next? [message #177875 is a reply to message #177568] |
Fri, 04 November 2005 14:07 |
runewood
Messages: 138
Registered: October 2005
Location: SE Michigan
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^^ ya i thought about watching it but i didnt. It just shows we a screwed even if we do pollute. The question is, how do we beat nature in time to save ourselves.
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man. Let history make it's own judgments."
"Maybe its not the destination that matters, but the journey."
"How many people does it take before its wrong? A thousand? Fifty thousand? A million?"
"Im not here to tell you how it is going to end, Im here to tell you how it is going to begin."
"Its not the end or even the beggining of the end, mearly the end of the beggining."
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end."
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