Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Marijuana legalization
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164483 is a reply to message #164464] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 17:11   |
 |
Fabian
Messages: 821
Registered: April 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Karma: 0
|
Colonel |
|
|
| Crimson wrote on Wed, 27 July 2005 18:07 |
I'm still waiting to see a non-pothead advocating it being legalized... those of us who choose not to pollute our lungs and minds with that crud would prefer everyone stay off it.
|
What the fuck are you trying to accomplish with that point? OF COURSE advocates of marijuana legalization like marijuana. What an amazing discovery!! Hey, did you know that people who don't advocate using animal fur LIKE animals?!?! CRAZY!
| Quote: |
Won't save money, it will just be diverted to other areas of operation. But then the same could be said if people stopped using Marijuana.
|
So if you had to pay $20 a month for medicine (for example), and then you didn't need the medicine anymore and used that twenty for food, that isn't beneficial to you? The same COULD be said if people stopped using pot, but that's not realistic. That would NEVER happen, so don't bring it up as a point.
| Quote: |
Won't get rid of dealers, they'll just move on to something else. The drug scene isn't "I want to give weed to the world", it's "I want to make money".
|
It will reduce the number of dealers on the street. Coke is harder to come by and fewer people are willing to risk selling it.
| Quote: |
Edit: just as a further comment to continue what gbull wrote. Inagine how much MORE money you could have saved by not smoking Marijuana.
I don't know the exact figures, so lets make some up. Say one roll costs $2.00. You start when you're 21, and smoke 1 a day for the rest of your life. Lets say you live to be 70....[insert numbers]
|
Earth to warranto: if it were legal your total would be a very small percentage of that.
| Quote: |
Legalizing all drugs could bring in even more tax dollars! Lets use this as a reason for allow cocaine to be legal again!
|
Pot and coke aren't comprable drugs. There needs to be a balance between benefit to the goverment and harm to the people.
Let me reiterate the comparison. Weed is less harmful than alcohol, yet alcohol is legal and weed isn't.
So the comparison SHOULD be:
Assault is less harmful than murder, yet murder is legal and assault isn't.
But that's not the case because it's illogical. As is the situation with weed.
And another thing about saving money: taxpayers spend the MOST money keeping people who are convicted of weed-related crimes in jail more than any other type of convict. We could be saving BILLIONS of dollars if we didn't waste cell spaces with those people.
| Quote: |
I do NOT FUCKING want your secondhand pot smoke, and I bet there are MILLIONS who feel the same way.
|
How exactly did you miss the point AGAIN that if it were to be legal it couldn't be done in a public place?
| Quote: |
People will always murder, rape, steal, and Con. So we should make all those things legal as well I guess.
|
THOSE THINGS HARM OTHER PEOPLE. Comprende, Paco?
-edit-
I forget who said this, but killing pain isn't the only medicinal use. I know someone who has AIDs and uses it to increas his appetite (AIDS reduces appteite significantly, to the point of making eating a chore). It also supresses vomitting for cancer patients.
[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2005 17:13] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164484 is a reply to message #164400] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 17:49 |
 |
glyde51
Messages: 1827
Registered: August 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Karma: 0
|
General (1 Star) |
|
|
| SEAL wrote on Wed, 27 July 2005 10:14 |
| Hydra wrote on Tue, 26 July 2005 23:33 |
Just like slurred speech isn't common amongst drunkards.
From the drunkards' perspectives, at least.
|
Nope. Not just like that. Alcohol actually is a direct cause of slurred speech. "Stoner talk" is a stereotypical way of talking that is not only exagerated and uncommon, it's not directly caused by pot.
| Quote: |
You are also missing a key point. You want to legalize pot? You want to buy it at a store. Where does the store get it from? You aren't removing the drug dealers, you are just making what they do legal. Who owns the big marijuana plantations in south america? Do you think those druglords are suddenly gonna say here Walmart, you get this one. Target you get this one. No, the drugs still are purchased through them. And we're talking big money moving now. Money used to purchase weapons and mercenaries to terrorise the population of central and south america. That region would probably be more dangerous than the gaza strip.
|
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. If pot were to become legal in the United States, it would actually be produced here (or at the very least, by American companies). In fact, Marlboro has already copyrighted "Marlboro Greens." Why would a company want to rely on overpriced, dangerous drug lords that are inconveniently far south when they can legally grow their own supplies at fractions of the cost? Drug lords would be put out of business when huge, industrial companies have the capacity to mechanize the process because they would stand no chance of competing.
| Quote: |
The government isn't responsible for making you feel good. They protect you and yell at you for being a dumbass. If you want a hug get one from a shallow heartless girlfriend.
|
The government isn't responsible for making us feel good, correct. However, I feel the goverment should give people the oppourtunity to do what they want so long as it doesn't harm or get in the way of others who don't want to take part. The government isn't responsible for making us feel good, yet they are fine with people "feeling good" with tobacco and alcohol.
| Quote: |
Marijuana is in fact much more harmful to the body than cigs because of the fact that you smoke it unfiltered. A cig's filter really does help to get rid of some of the harmful stuff.
|
Wrong. Marijuana being sold on the streets doesn't have added chemicals and poisons. It's just a plant. As a scare tactic, anti-drug campaigns will tell you that dealers put chemicals like rat poison in their pot, but that's a rare occurance (most dealers want to keep their clients happy, and won't lace their pot with things that their clients don't want). Legalizing pot will allow the pot that goes into the market to be regulated by the FDA, giving people even more assurance that the pot being sold is pure.
Tobacco being "filtered" doesn't make up for the fact that tobacco is still far more harmful to your health than pot.
Marijuana much more addictive than tobacco? How uninformed ARE you?
|
Not as uninformed as you?
No. Seriously. No.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164486 is a reply to message #164483] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 18:13 |
 |
Crimson
Messages: 7428
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
|
General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
|
|
| SEAL wrote on Wed, 27 July 2005 17:11 |
| Crimson wrote on Wed, 27 July 2005 18:07 |
I'm still waiting to see a non-pothead advocating it being legalized... those of us who choose not to pollute our lungs and minds with that crud would prefer everyone stay off it.
|
What the fuck are you trying to accomplish with that point? OF COURSE advocates of marijuana legalization like marijuana. What an amazing discovery!! Hey, did you know that people who don't advocate using animal fur LIKE animals?!?! CRAZY!
|
I bet murderers want murder legalized, too. Let's legalize that.
| Quote: |
Earth to warranto: if it were legal your total would be a very small percentage of that.
|
Sweet! Let's legalize marijuana to reduce its cost! Great argument!
| Quote: |
Let me reiterate the comparison. Weed is less harmful than alcohol, yet alcohol is legal and weed isn't.
|
Is there a study backing this claim up? Because it sure looks like your opinion and laws aren't built on some stoner's opinion. I still disagree that weed is as harmless as you claim.
| Quote: |
And another thing about saving money: taxpayers spend the MOST money keeping people who are convicted of weed-related crimes in jail more than any other type of convict. We could be saving BILLIONS of dollars if we didn't waste cell spaces with those people.
|
Cool! Let's allow everything and let everyone out of jail! Next we'll hear some embezzler thinking embezellment should be legalized so he won't have to go to jail for it.
| Quote: |
How exactly did you miss the point AGAIN that if it were to be legal it couldn't be done in a public place?
|
You can't seriously think that legalizing weed wouldn't increase my day-to-day exposure to its fumes... can you?
| Quote: |
I forget who said this, but killing pain isn't the only medicinal use. I know someone who has AIDs and uses it to increas his appetite (AIDS reduces appteite significantly, to the point of making eating a chore). It also supresses vomitting for cancer patients.
|
Ummmm... if medicinal reasons were legitimate to legalize something, then Morphine would be available at the Walgreens on the corner and prescriptions would be a thing of the past.... controlled narcotics... jesus. This is by far the worst set of arguments to try and legitimize a repulsive habit I've ever seen, next to the health benefits of eating one's own boogers.
I'm the bawss.
[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2005 18:14] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164488 is a reply to message #164286] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 18:25 |
 |
warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
The post is too long to quote in one go, so I'll cut that part out.
| Quote: |
So if you had to pay $20 a month for medicine (for example), and then you didn't need the medicine anymore and used that twenty for food, that isn't beneficial to you?
|
Yes that would be benificial, but not if that $20 that could be for medicine or food went to get you high (unless you're trying to suggest that Marijuana is a credible food source).
[quote]It will reduce the number of dealers on the street. Coke is harder to come by and fewer people are willing to risk selling it.[quote]
I doubt it will reduce the numbers by any significant ammount. Coke was only an example, substitute it for something less "dangerous" such as Speed, LSD, or even Exstacy.
| Quote: |
Earth to warranto: if it were legal your total would be a very small percentage of that
|
As I said, I don't know how much it would go for or what it goes for now. It all adds up to basically the same thing though, just the variables would be different.
| Quote: |
Pot and coke aren't comprable drugs.
|
Once again, the drug I used was an example. Feel free to substitue it for any other illegal drug you desire.
| Quote: |
And another thing about saving money: taxpayers spend the MOST money keeping people who are convicted of weed-related crimes in jail more than any other type of convict. We could be saving BILLIONS of dollars if we didn't waste cell spaces with those people.
|
Then we should also legalize petty theft, and all the other misnomeners. After all, think of how much money would be saved by not having those people in jail!
| Quote: |
There needs to be a balance between benefit to the goverment and harm to the people.
|
So, as long as the "balance" is maintained, something could be as harmful as you want, as long as the government can revceive equal compensation for it? If that's the case, lets legalize heroin and the government can simply tax it enough so that the "balance" is maintained.
| Quote: |
Let me reiterate the comparison. Weed is less harmful than alcohol, yet alcohol is legal and weed isn't.
|
Substituting your own comparison to make it look like mine, simply to try and discredit me doesn't work.
| Quote: |
What the fuck are you trying to accomplish with that point? OF COURSE advocates of marijuana legalization like marijuana. What an amazing discovery!! Hey, did you know that people who don't advocate using animal fur LIKE animals?!?! CRAZY!
|
You missed her point. The only reason Marijuana users want to see it legal is because htey will benifit from it. THey have a highlt biased view of the situation. If someone who did not use Marijuana, and was not benifiting from the outcome, said that it should be legal, much more credit would be given to the legalization side. As it currently is, the only reason you are arguing to legalize it is so that you can continue to use it without fear of prosecution.
| Quote: |
How exactly did you miss the point AGAIN that if it were to be legal it couldn't be done in a public place?
|
Family members would still have to contend with it. Though I do wonder how a newborn acts while high on the second hand smoke...
| Quote: |
The same COULD be said if people stopped using pot, but that's not realistic. That would NEVER happen, so don't bring it up as a point.
|
The simplt fact that people are so weak that they can't stop should have no bearing on whether or not something should be legal. People will never stop killing other people or stealing what isn't theirs, so you're saying those should be made legal as well, simply because people will never stop doing it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164492 is a reply to message #164483] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 19:14 |
 |
Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
|
General (1 Star) |
|
|
| SEAL wrote on Wed, 27 July 2005 20:11 |
-edit-
I forget who said this, but killing pain isn't the only medicinal use. I know someone who has AIDs and uses it to increas his appetite (AIDS reduces appteite significantly, to the point of making eating a chore). It also supresses vomitting for cancer patients.
|
There are two branches of thought on the matter. AIDS patients, and many cancer patients are also terminal. The argument would be that "well, they're dying anyway, so why not make them feel better even though it is causing irrepairable harm to their inards", and that's fine.
However, in a strictly medical situation, the marijuana does more harm than good. Increasing appetite is easily done by introducing insulin into the body. It forces the body into a state of hunger because the insulin causes the "hunger" feeling using various hormones and glucogon. The insulin is devoured by the body and the operator mechanisms in the cells that make and breakdown the hormone are totally unaffected.
Surpressing vomitting is done quite simply by muscle relaxants and crappy tasting stuff like Pepto Bismol.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164494 is a reply to message #164286] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 19:46 |
 |
Sniper_De7
Messages: 866
Registered: April 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Karma: 0
|
Colonel |
|
|
Just to let you know who says it'll be cheaper for weed? Are you serious? add taxes and add the fact that people would rather want weed than, say, cigarettes. Supply + Demand goes up and so does the price. And yes they will get away with probably even a bigger tax increase, because if it is so, as you put it, better than cigarettes - than it's more the reason to of course up the price. Of course I don't know how it works in Canada or other countries, but that's how it'd work in the USA.
Oderint, dum metuant.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164496 is a reply to message #164494] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 20:22 |
|
Fabian
Messages: 821
Registered: April 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Karma: 0
|
Colonel |
|
|
It's late, so I just skimmed through your posts, so this isn't an all-points post...
But I did notice that MANY said something along the lines of "Well, Crime X blah blah blah, so why don't we legalize that too!?"
Yet every example given is a DANGEROUS, HARMFUL-TO-OTHERS crime.
And Crimson, I actually do consider myself well informed on marijuana's long term and short term effects. I've talked about it with my doctor, and read lots of documentation on it.
I'd also like to thank and congratulate Hydra for his low-blow, lameass attack on how I live my life. Real mature there, champ. If you must know, I smoke to relax, not to hide from the reality of life. It's a personal decision, and I go out of my way to make sure that what I do doesn't interfere with anyone else who doesn't want to be involved. Hydra, I knew you were a dick, but you really need to grow up.
| Quote: |
Just to let you know who says it'll be cheaper for weed? Are you serious? add taxes and add the fact that people would rather want weed than, say, cigarettes. Supply + Demand goes up and so does the price. And yes they will get away with probably even a bigger tax increase, because if it is so, as you put it, better than cigarettes - than it's more the reason to of course up the price. Of course I don't know how it works in Canada or other countries, but that's how it'd work in the USA.
|
If you were to buy a "pack" of pot cigarettes...
Each cigarette would hold about $6 worth of pot, so the street price would be $120. The cost of a pack of un-taxed pot cigarettes, based on what un-taxed tobacco cigarettes would cost, is probably $2.00. So unless the goverment adds a 6000% tax, I don't think beating street prices will be a problem...
[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2005 20:33] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164498 is a reply to message #164497] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 20:35 |
|
Fabian
Messages: 821
Registered: April 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Karma: 0
|
Colonel |
|
|
I never expected them to be for this. Who said they would be? Are you assuming that "left" = smokes pot? No chance? I've been countering almost every single point made by people from the other side of this argument. Just because the majority of the people on this forum are against it, doesn't necessarily mean they are winning. (I'm NOT saying I'm winning either).
It's not like I expected a group of people that spend more time than the average person in front of a computer to smoke pot... yes, I realize that doens't apply for everyone, but I think it's a pretty safe assumption.
[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2005 20:40] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164501 is a reply to message #164286] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 21:11 |
|
Sniper_De7
Messages: 866
Registered: April 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Karma: 0
|
Colonel |
|
|
OK let's just put this in one big picture. On one argument here we have the people who want to legalize it. Let's compare it to legalized drinking and when we made it illegal. It's obvious you can't just get rid of the problem by making it illegal because you can see how many people smuggled beer in however many ways they could. making it legal had it's points because you didn't have people doing illegal things and fights over the alcohol.
Same with pot, that you'd reduce people who smuggle it in our country and there'd be less fights on drug gangs and what not because there wouldn't be much of a point if they could get it cheaper at a store (regardless whether or not they buy with the same amount of money, but for more) Now in the short run this might be good. But it really isn't stepping in the right direction. I'm not exactly siding anything but most people would like to hope that we can take a step into stopping drugs one day. But that might never happen especially when people are already mentally and physically addicted to some of them. I guess both sides can be technically right in some ways. But you aren't going to get rid of the problem by promoting it. Then again it is the people's decision in the end.
For the reference anyways, it doesn't mean anything to say just because pot's illegal and it's less harmful than say beer when that's legal doesn't exactly make it right to legalize it. But whatever.. Like I said i'm not pro-anything and I won't be. In the end run it doesn't help us get rid of the problem but in the short run it might help some.
Oderint, dum metuant.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164532 is a reply to message #164488] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 05:52 |
|
glyde51
Messages: 1827
Registered: August 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Karma: 0
|
General (1 Star) |
|
|
[quote title=warranto wrote on Wed, 27 July 2005 21:25]The post is too long to quote in one go, so I'll cut that part out.
| Quote: |
So if you had to pay $20 a month for medicine (for example), and then you didn't need the medicine anymore and used that twenty for food, that isn't beneficial to you?
|
Yes that would be benificial, but not if that $20 that could be for medicine or food went to get you high (unless you're trying to suggest that Marijuana is a credible food source).
[quote]It will reduce the number of dealers on the street. Coke is harder to come by and fewer people are willing to risk selling it.| Quote: |
I doubt it will reduce the numbers by any significant ammount. Coke was only an example, substitute it for something less "dangerous" such as Speed, LSD, or even Exstacy.
| Quote: |
Earth to warranto: if it were legal your total would be a very small percentage of that
|
As I said, I don't know how much it would go for or what it goes for now. It all adds up to basically the same thing though, just the variables would be different.
| Quote: |
Pot and coke aren't comprable drugs.
|
Once again, the drug I used was an example. Feel free to substitue it for any other illegal drug you desire.
| Quote: |
And another thing about saving money: taxpayers spend the MOST money keeping people who are convicted of weed-related crimes in jail more than any other type of convict. We could be saving BILLIONS of dollars if we didn't waste cell spaces with those people.
|
Then we should also legalize petty theft, and all the other misnomeners. After all, think of how much money would be saved by not having those people in jail!
| Quote: |
There needs to be a balance between benefit to the goverment and harm to the people.
|
So, as long as the "balance" is maintained, something could be as harmful as you want, as long as the government can revceive equal compensation for it? If that's the case, lets legalize heroin and the government can simply tax it enough so that the "balance" is maintained.
| Quote: |
Let me reiterate the comparison. Weed is less harmful than alcohol, yet alcohol is legal and weed isn't.
|
Substituting your own comparison to make it look like mine, simply to try and discredit me doesn't work.
| Quote: |
What the fuck are you trying to accomplish with that point? OF COURSE advocates of marijuana legalization like marijuana. What an amazing discovery!! Hey, did you know that people who don't advocate using animal fur LIKE animals?!?! CRAZY!
|
You missed her point. The only reason Marijuana users want to see it legal is because htey will benifit from it. THey have a highlt biased view of the situation. If someone who did not use Marijuana, and was not benifiting from the outcome, said that it should be legal, much more credit would be given to the legalization side. As it currently is, the only reason you are arguing to legalize it is so that you can continue to use it without fear of prosecution.
| Quote: |
How exactly did you miss the point AGAIN that if it were to be legal it couldn't be done in a public place?
|
Family members would still have to contend with it. Though I do wonder how a newborn acts while high on the second hand smoke...
| Quote: |
The same COULD be said if people stopped using pot, but that's not realistic. That would NEVER happen, so don't bring it up as a point.
|
The simplt fact that people are so weak that they can't stop should have no bearing on whether or not something should be legal. People will never stop killing other people or stealing what isn't theirs, so you're saying those should be made legal as well, simply because people will never stop doing it?
|
If a small child encountered second hand smoke from Marijuana, it would be much more likely to have nerological disorders.
No. Seriously. No.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164533 is a reply to message #164532] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 06:12 |
|
Fabian
Messages: 821
Registered: April 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Karma: 0
|
Colonel |
|
|
Apparently, accoarding to my doctor, coffee is more addictive than marijuana.
On average, America spends 7.6 billion dollars funding anti-drug campaigns and keeping pot-criminals in jail each year. I don't know about you, but I think the minor inconveniences of legalizing pot are worth putting that kind of taxpayer money to something beneficial, like education. If you divide that by the number of people in jail for pot related crimes, that's $10,400 per arrest. $10,400 for what more often than not, is just putting someone away who's looking to enjoy himself with a couple of friends. $10,400 per arrest is more than what is spent on murderers and rapists.
Pot is not harmless. No drug is. However:
| The journal Current Opinion in Pharmacology |
Overall, by comparison with other drugs used mainly for ‘recreational’ purposes, cannabis (is) rated to be a relatively safe drug.
|
| AskMen.com |
"There is no evidence that marijuana use causes brain damage."
"...the American Medical Association (AMA) officially announced its support for the decriminalization of marijuana."
"No trustworthy study has ever shown that marijuana use damages the reproductive system, or causes chromosome breakage."
|
Lastly, as a I said before, areas that have legalized/decriminalized pot have seen a DECREASE in the use of harder drugs. For those who do not know, that is a good thing. 
I also suggest that you guys read this:
http://www.askmen.com/toys/special_feature/3_special_feature .html
[Updated on: Thu, 28 July 2005 06:24] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164555 is a reply to message #164286] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 08:05 |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
Karma: 0
|
General (1 Star) |
|
|
You said the problems of legalization will be minimal, and quoted:
"No trustworthy study has ever shown that marijuana use damages the reproductive system, or causes chromosome breakage."
But what if an untrustworthy study was actually correct? If marijuana didn't do anything, and there really wasn't any edivence to suggest it did, it would be legal. I don't believe the medical associations are foolproof in their information, nor do they know the outcome of what will happen if marijuana is legalised, they support it, and problems wind up occuring because people start taking it all the time and get ill. I know a friend who can't even go to work without being stoned. he smokes it at every opportunity. he isn't ill but if he keeps it up i'm sure it won't be good for him in the long run, a bit like smoking.
The other bit about places where legal marijuana has less hard drug use doesn't make sense...this would mean that because marijuana was illegal, people used hard drugs more....which are EVEN MORE ILLEGAL THAN MARIJUANA AND POSE WORSE PENALTIES. The occupants of these places can't be bright people...
apart from all this, it should be illegal because of its god awful smell....i don't want to have to smell it every time I jump on a bus on friday/saturday night...
[Updated on: Thu, 28 July 2005 08:10] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164556 is a reply to message #164286] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 08:07 |
|
warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
I read it, and it offers some interesting points.
The only benefits are medical, which has never been in dispute.
The guy isn't as smart as perhaps he could be. He "needs" Marijuana in order to create great works.
Marijuana causes short term memory loss (while intoxicated). Wow, getting high and not being able to remember what I did. That sounds promising. Perhaps people will start "legally" getting high just prior to committing a crime. Now have a valid legal defense.
It also claims that smoking marijuana has the potential to cause both bronchitis and cancer of the lungs, throat, and neck. Yet another non-medical "benefit" that you were talking about? Oh yes, it may also affect your lungs immune system, and cause your body to change how your heart functions. These benefits really start piling up!.
It also mentions a point you brought up, so I thought I'd mention it again.
| Quote: |
Authorities spend, no, waste millions of dollars going after people who smoke a recreational drug while rapists, murderers, fraudsters, and hard drug dealers roam the streets.
|
Why should this be the strongest case supporters have for legalizing it? I mean, you could legalize speeding as well. It doesn't harm anyone if you know what you are doing, and police stop them when they could be out catching the criminals that are more dangerous. Think of all the resources that could be diverted elsewhere if speeding were to be made legal! I mean, it works fine on the autobahn, so why not here? You could also (as I mentioned before) legalize petty crime! Sure people are harmed by it, but "everyone" does it, and people will never stop doing it, so think of how much money the legal system would save by not prosecuting these people!
Edit: before I forget, the link also brings up the fact that the dutch partially legalized it, and less people do the hard drugs. Again I say that this is irrelevant. Of course people will stop with the hard drugs, because a different drug was made legal. If you switched Marijuana with speed, LSD or Ecstasy, the same thing would probably hold true. Less use of coke and Heroin, and more use of the product that was made legal.
[Updated on: Thu, 28 July 2005 08:10] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164557 is a reply to message #164555] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 08:13 |
|
Fabian
Messages: 821
Registered: April 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Karma: 0
|
Colonel |
|
|
| Quote: |
You said the problems of legalization will be minimal, and quoted:
"No trustworthy study has ever shown that marijuana use damages the reproductive system, or causes chromosome breakage."
But what if an untrustworthy study was actually correct? If marijuana didn't do anything, and there really wasn't any edivence to suggest it did, it would be legal.
|
Tobacco and alcohol companies don't want it to be legal because it would give them more competition. Those companies, especially tobacco companies, have HUGE influences in Washington. THIS is the primary reason it isn't legal--it has little to do with the actual facts pertaining to marijuana. If you want to go around trusting "untrustworthy" studies, be my guest.
| Quote: |
I don't believe the medical associations are foolproof in their information, nor do they know the outcome of what will happen if marijuana is legalised, they support it, and problems wind up occuring.
|
True. Nothing is foolproof. However, they know a lot more than you or me or anyone else on this forum when it comes to medical information. They are, after all, the AMA.
| Quote: |
The other bit about places where legal marijuana has less hard drug use doesn't make sense...this would mean that because marijuana was illegal, people used hard drugs more....which are EVEN MORE ILLEGAL THAN MARIJUANA. The occupants of these places can't be bright people...
|
It makes plenty of sense. People who used harder drugs now have a safer, legal alternative, so they use marijuana instead of drugs that do much more harm. Whether or not these people are "bright" doesn't take away from the fact that hard drug use went down, and that's a very good thing.
| Quote: |
Why should this be the strongest case supporters have for legalizing it? I mean, you could legalize speeding as well. It doesn't harm anyone if you know what you are doing, and police stop them when they could be out catching the criminals that are more dangerous. Think of all the resources that could be diverted elsewhere if speeding were to be made legal! I mean, it works fine on the autobahn, so why not here? You could also (as I mentioned before) legalize petty crime! Sure people are harmed by it, but "everyone" does it, and people will never stop doing it, so think of how much money the legal system would save by not prosecuting these people!
|
Warranto: READ.
| Quote: |
But I did notice that MANY said something along the lines of "Well, Crime X blah blah blah, so why don't we legalize that too!?"
Yet every example given is a DANGEROUS, HARMFUL-TO-OTHERS crime.
|
Speeding is harmful to others. Petty crime is harmful to others. I generally regard you as an intelligent person, but you continue to bring up the same, flawed argument.
[Updated on: Thu, 28 July 2005 11:24] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164588 is a reply to message #164286] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 12:55 |
 |
NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
|
Colonel |
|
|
I used to simply not care either way. Then I came upon a simple reason why weed should remain illegal:
Illegal weed keeps potheads out of my face.
So long as weed is illegal, potheads will find nice, out of the way places to indulge their habit where I don't have to look at them or smell them. Especially smell them. There was one street corner by my high school where alll the potheads used to get together and light up at break or after school... you could smell them across the damn street. There is NOTHING that smells worse than pot. Nothing. I'd rather stick my face in a pile of shit or take a nice whif of vomit than smell pot fumes. Cigarretes are bad enough- I can't stand to hang around NORMAL smokers while they're puffing away.
Banning public use wouldn't be much of a solution either...unlike normal cigs, pot odor doesn't just hang around the user. It spreads. Out the window, out of the yard, into the non-smoking section of the restaurant, whatever. It would still be disruptive to passers by on the street.*boldface for emphasis
Unless there are also ordinances passed that ban use of pot except inside private residences with the doors and windows all closed, it is still too close to the public.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164589 is a reply to message #164588] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 13:22 |
|
Fabian
Messages: 821
Registered: April 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Karma: 0
|
Colonel |
|
|
That's a fair point.
For all the potheads out there (right... a grand total of 0 on this forum):
-Get one of those sheets you throw in the dryer to make your clothes smell nice.
-Crumple it up into a ball.
-Stick it in the end of a toilet paper tube.
-Exhale smoke into tube.
I've tried it. It works magic. MAGIC I TELLS YA!  You can't smell it at all.
If potheads can figure out how to stop the smell, companies can figure out an even better way.
Anyway... it's not that pot odor "spreads" more. It's a generally a more potent smell. Low quality pot that is poorly ground up tends to smell more, and smell worse to people who don't smoke. Good, well processed and ground up marijuana (the type that companies can come up with easily) tends to burn more smoothly and creates less potent smoke. This is why cigarettes don't smell as much as say, someone smoking tobacco from a pipe.
That, coupled with a public-use ban, could be enough to take care of those concerns. I don't see why it would be wrong to call the cops on someone who is letting their odors get in the way of people who don't want to smell anything. Trust me, I'm all for letting people live their lives without being bothered.
[Updated on: Thu, 28 July 2005 13:32] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164596 is a reply to message #164496] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 14:32 |
 |
Hydra
Messages: 827
Registered: September 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Karma: 0
|
Colonel |
|
|
| Serious Ejection of All Logic wrote on Wed, 27 July 2005 23:22 |
I'd also like to thank and congratulate Hydra for his low-blow, lameass attack on how I live my life. Real mature there, champ. If you must know, I smoke to relax, not to hide from the reality of life. It's a personal decision, and I go out of my way to make sure that what I do doesn't interfere with anyone else who doesn't want to be involved. Hydra, I knew you were a dick, but you really need to grow up.
|
I'd rather be a dick than a brainless pothead burnt out on marijuana.
You can't find any other, more constructive way to relax? Marijuana smoking is a disgusting, repulsive habit, no matter which way you look at it. You're putting unnatural shit into your body. You call that "relaxing"?
It seems a large lump of marijuana has replaced the part of your brain that used to be occupied by common sense.
Now I just feel sorry for you.
Walter Keith Koester: September 22, 1962 - March 15, 2005
God be with you, Uncle Wally.
 (<---New(ish) Prayer Group Forums)
 (<---Archived Prayer Group Forums)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Marijuana legalization [message #164604 is a reply to message #164601] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 15:30 |
|
Fabian
Messages: 821
Registered: April 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Karma: 0
|
Colonel |
|
|
| Quote: |
The arguement only appears flawed because you refuse to acknowledge the idea that Marijuana is harmful to others; just like the things I have been pointing out(and harmful does not mean that it has to have some SERIOUS medical condition. Simply throwing up from the second hand smoke is considered "harmful").
|
I've already talked a great deal about how people who smoke pot can and could be legally forced to insure others aren't "harmed." I'm not revisiting this unless you come up with something new.
And Hydra, since you personally know me and can thus accurately describe me, I intend on taking your comments very seriously. 
As for that link...
| Quote: |
The strength of today's marijuana is as much as ten times greater than the marijuana used in the early 1970s.
|
Absolute bullshit. Marijuana/hashish has been grown/produced for hundreds of years. People have been smoking it in the east for many more years than in the US. A lot of marijuana still comes from there today. It's the same plant.
| Quote: |
People describe this reaction as an extreme fear of "losing control," which causes panic.
|
I don't know who these people that they asked are, but they sound like they have problems already. Extreme fear and losing control? Give me a break.
| Quote: |
Long-term regular users of marijuana may become psychologically dependent.
|
It has been proven that marijuana is addictive by a study financed by the US government. That study also mentioned that coffee, sex, and chocolate are more addictive. POT: REAL ADDICTIVE!!
| Quote: |
Research shows that the earlier people start using drugs, the more likely they are to go on to experiment with other drugs.
|
I would support pot being illegal to minors. This logic that pot leads to harder drugs is based on the fact that most people who do harder drugs started with pot. However, the majority people who smoke pot do not move on to harder drugs. Not so bad when you look at the facts correctly, huh?
| Quote: |
Some research studies suggest that the use of marijuana during pregnancy may result in premature babies and in low birth weights. Studies of men and women may have a temporary loss of fertility. These findings suggest that marijuana may be especially harmful during adolescence, a period of rapid physical and sexual development.
|
"No trustworthy study has ever shown that marijuana use damages the reproductive system, or causes chromosome breakage. Studies of actual human populations have failed to demonstrate that marijuana adversely affects the reproductive system. Claims that marijuana use may impair hormone production, menstrual cycles, or fertility in females are both unproven and unfounded."
- http://www.askmen.com/sports/health/20b_mens_health.html
| Quote: |
Scientists believe that marijuana can be especially harmful to the lungs because users often inhale the unfiltered smoke deeply and hold it in their lungs as long as possible. Therefore, the smoke is in contact with lung tissues for long periods of time, which irritates the lungs and damages the way they work. Marijuana smoke contains some of the same ingredients in tobacco smoke that can cause emphysema and cancer.
|
There is no evidence showing higher rates of lung cancer in people who use marijuana.
Marijuana Unlikely to Cause Head, Neck, or Lung Cancer
Oh, the good ol' Missouri Department of mental haelth...
[Updated on: Thu, 28 July 2005 15:40] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Sat Jun 08 12:53:18 MST 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01324 seconds
|
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
